From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 11 15:44:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B451065680; Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF50C8FC08; Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD47C.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.212.124]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q8BFiNGN023105; Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:44:24 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q8BFi83p089646; Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:44:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q8BFi1AD064967; Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:44:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201209111544.q8BFi1AD064967@fire.js.berklix.net> To: arch@freebsd.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:35:02 PDT." <504ECD86.2040002@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:44:01 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Doug Barton Subject: Re: Removing CVS from HEAD X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:44:32 -0000 On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 22:35 -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 09/10/2012 17:27, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > When/if it's agreed to remove CVS from src/ to ports/ , do it > > Not in un-managed haste. Not gratuitously annoying users by > > removing CVS from src/ without due warning. > > Do you consider years from now "due warning?" I never mentioned Years plural or a time scale, beyond If FreeBSD do it, let's allow time for eg : - Warn in one release notes, - Set WITHOUT_CVS=YES in next release & warn, - Will be deleted from next release. I never wrote (or thought) they had to be major release digits. I was thinking at least a minimal linear minor digit sequence might do, eg { 8.4, 8.5, 8.6 } or { 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 } though I noted since others are talking about major release numbers eg 10 etc, & as minor numbers rarely get high since eg 4.11, some accomodation with major numbers is needed. I'm not suggesting what, I'll continue to read what others suggest. > Because that's how long it > is going to be before any measurable quantity of users is on 10.x. > Between now and then, every one of them who is paying any attention at > all will have moved from CVS to SVN. > > This whole argument of "zomg, users can't handle things moving to ports" > is so 20th century. Let's manage warnings, It's not that users Can't handle ports, most Can, But: - Not all FreeBSD (or CVS) users, use FreeBSD (or CVS) just to build FreeBSD. FreeBSD people have long had CVS available out of the box for Their repositories too, not just for freebsd.org. - It's not business efficient for newcomers to FreeBSD to stay with an OS that wastes their time with superfluous variances from other Unixes, before they can restore/ achieve a usable common UX base. Not all users are FreeBSD dedicated, some are just passing through, & will pass on stay, according to how much of their time we consume with whatever makes us time consumingly different from other UXs they know. A newcomer will ask the same sceptical questions of FreeBSD as of other UX's: "How much time must I lose on this UX before I'll get back to a Unix environment with tools I'm used to from other Unixes ?" I installed 3 different Linux last week, it was a reminder, how I saw them, as to how others trying FreeBSD may equally see ours, & decide to pass on, or stay. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.