From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 15 16:16:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE986BE317 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:16:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26E8D6A731 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:16:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1563207364; x=1565799364; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=6LOXB75FZeUhcz5r0Yc+rfUWqPajldm8Ad3YulIpvmQ=; b=vA0ShJRXu2pZQdwO71HfSOPnnYl2XGAIiZU7iiBMks3G5iWUua0Q6px75N0qb+gQH2/lXDjrEc8dm/ZN++qg3uv7tNbXk2FyzEhKekDKQxj3yAUBJZQyKKKPo3E6AD1iPPyIH7fuqldBTWXgDZkyEukEmi4NEQC35dsPpJvSHaM= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDI4YjU1OGMuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com (r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.179.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:15:53 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:15:52 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hn3dn-000LDt-GP for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:15:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:15:51 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dead slow update servers Message-Id: <20190715171551.4398e18aae6b91e2ee01333c@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <871ryrl4vz.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sgrbi3qg.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190712171910.GA25091@neutralgood.org> <871ryuj3ex.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <874l3qfvqw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190714011303.GA25317@neutralgood.org> <87v9w58apd.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <0ed2aef9-0cb8-b7ab-711e-34f139c60285@osfux.nl> <87zhlgqlqz.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190715055400.8528e4ea2b4b575b8649d7b1@sohara.org> <871ryrl4vz.fsf@toy.adminart.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 26E8D6A731 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=vA0ShJRX; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.16 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mxbh.socketlabs.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[ip: (-0.55), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.25), asn: 7381(-0.18), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:16:05 -0000 On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:00:16 +0200 hw wrote: > Steve O'Hara-Smith writes: > > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 00:44:52 +0200 > > hw wrote: > > > >> What is the point of doing this? When you have hardware RAID, just use > >> it rather than ZFS. > > > > ZFS is a far better solution than hardware RAID and any other > > file system. The only reason for using hardware RAID is because you > > cannot use ZFS for some reason. > > It's more like the only reason not to use hardware RAID is when you > don't have it. Nope, I have hardware RAID available I leave it disabled and run ZFS on drives as JBOD. > ZFS is just another file system with its advantages and disadvantages. > That doesn't make it generally the best solution. ZFS is a file system with an *integrated* redundancy layer, the coupling between the two has benefits than cannot be matched by separate RAID and filesystem. > You could even say ZFS is generally the worst solution because it is > incompatible with common hard- and software. Nonetheless, under the > right circumstances, ZFS can still be the best solution. And why aren't > there any hardware ZFS controllers? We call them file servers or NAS boxes depending on which decade we learned our terminology. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/