From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 23 14:36:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B725D15AC92C; Thu, 23 May 2019 14:36:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 804E06F400; Thu, 23 May 2019 14:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id Topvh3xVUo7SQTopxhtCU9; Thu, 23 May 2019 08:36:54 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Go88BX9C c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=iKhvJSA4AAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=_ElVKmj7WNYsd84NAmkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=odh9cflL3HIXMm4fY7Wr:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from android-9b917f0ce39da6e6.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB0F58F4; Thu, 23 May 2019 07:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 07:36:27 -0700 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <201905230505.x4N55YRl088440@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <201905230505.x4N55YRl088440@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: newbie question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Rodney W. Grimes" , Greg 'groggy' Lehey CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, Alexandru Goia From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <9BCEA8E2-DCF6-42A0-8131-4B007C016A01@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfCmzyvl4c2ks6g4Law7aR9quxda7FcXe8pLWQU/Ndo6ijjLxzu0nBikS0XQ6p3pv9iOh2X6JnKuMklT4Zndm8DX8wBctFBUGPb6NI4esLiEV0wfg1gJQ ArbIbzuXQXz/DdNnxL+8uxPSIJygUZhBvxjDSOZ995cdvzPPhpmzRikZIi02uWSGvlh4WDujmaA70Ck7i8Zc1eUai/HYATS7zNZfxovuc154WOpqJrIAPT97 CtxOyTiyWwArWpkcqV0SfFDs1UPIEXBltiqau1JDdq10HaIyYHJ5Q5jumVWwkKQF4NiPCRMPCG2d8dR/+HnZALxeEFzqkqGkbXHyy3d4H5Y= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 804E06F400 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.54 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.38)[ip: (-6.05), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-3.25), asn: 6327(-2.50), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.952,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[139.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11, 233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 14:36:58 -0000 On May 22, 2019 10:05:34 PM PDT, "Rodney W=2E Grimes" wrote: >> On Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 21:10:38 -0700, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 1:36:24 +0300, Alexandru Goia wrote: >> >>> greetings=2E how can do i get attuned in a logical manner with the >> >>> *bsd/freebsd kernel source code ? thank you very much ! >> >> >> >> Clearly you know how to get it (otherwise >> >> https://www=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/doc/en_US=2EISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is >your >> >> friend)=2E To understand it better, I'd suggest reading "The Design >and >> >> Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System" by Kirk McKusick >and >> >> George Neville-Neil (Addison-Wesley)=2E >> >> >> >> Understanding the code requires some work=2E People will happily >answer >> >> detail questions, but you'll be responsible for finding out the >> >> overall structure yourself=2E >> > >> > During a somewhat recent session of working with a not new, >> > but also not seasoned developer, they noted a great deal of >> > confusion when I was reading through and explaining code >> > to them when I would actually read "pcb" on screen as >> > "Process Control Block" when verbalizing it=2E They could not >> > see what I had just read to them=2E >>=20 >> Heh=2E I ran into something like this decades ago, using an "operating >> system" that will be nameless=2E >>=20 >> The program to copy files was=2E=2E=2E IEBCPY=2E Most people pronounce= d it >> "Eye Ee Bee Copy"=2E And some had their card decks returned after >hours >> of queueing to discover that some completion code (13?) saying "NOT >> FOUND: IEBCOPY"=2E > >I think your copy of OS/360 is borked, or is this one of the names >they mangled in MVS? I have a vague memory of JCL that had those >types of issues=2E > >> Clearly, we decided, pronouncing names for what they mean is *bad*=2E >> From then on I spelt names out, or at least tried to pronounce them >> the way they're spelt ("Eye Ee Bee Cpy")=2E It confuse[ds] people, but >> it avoided some misunderstandings=2E > >Pronouncing spellings is bad, yes, but that is not what I was >doing=2E I was pronouncing the proper full names, usually as >defined either in "The design and implementation book" or in >the code comments themselves=2E > >I was not saying Pee See Bee for pcb, I was saying process >control block=2E > >>=20 >> Greg Yeah, there was no IEBCPY=2E Only IEBCOPY, though many sites wrote their o= wn due to ancient versions of the program were incapable of reblocking data= sets and borking the DSCB (akin to an inode) in the process=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E