From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 31 07:49:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6DB236D60; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thj@freebsd.org) Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4888W537scz4FFb; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thj@freebsd.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819437DD; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:49:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=1tHXFk Q/hEr0rdHzLoZzjIP89R+nd5Qoc7Jo2Z7061A=; b=o0KWOn1kHQrHq6aBNKyqm6 wWYKHnEY9t/FEoE+z9CQvOqAXzZLbnVlphPtMPUoD1W+0f9MXSNJpk8VXqhMYlQU L/tW+EpUkNRpPS2ORAF16agGA5n9SDeXp+9oOeEP+XiwoeFEnxqS7xdCwFAhMsue hXDnlMmlzdN+WC97rCHF9wN39FGogY+AbIXohKbdVAD74Zky1ywBvFguoX974vjt wQtcn6AdkpyCnZ2fnu2d/Ov3O2X5DnEuFr/pA7251+8ryALKcuh5YqmQRLM9AyK5 Nr+dHb8q4vZR/cZHl8T3/qvhw3ZbOn8ABJCm6QoEFsOgmwK4CXqwPcAuSL3ZblUw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrfeelgddutdejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne gfrhhlucfvnfffucdlfedmnecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjsehttdertddttddv necuhfhrohhmpefvohhmucflohhnvghsuceothhhjhesfhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrgheqne cuffhomhgrihhnpehfrghrnhgvlhhlrdgtohhmnecukfhppedufeejrdehtddrudejrddu vdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehthh hjsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk (tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk [137.50.17.12]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0A24E328005D; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:49:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:48:38 +0000 From: Tom Jones To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Paul Mather , Robert Clausecker , freebsd-arm , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20200131074838.GA91179@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4888W537scz4FFb X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.95 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.972,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:49:21 -0000 On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:29:07PM +0100, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:11:38 +0000 > "Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote: > > > -------- > > In message , Paul Mather writes: > > >On Dec 4, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Robert Clausecker wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 07:29:57AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > >>> In message , Ed Maste writes: > > >> > > >> Indeed. For example, on a Raspberry Pi 3B, it takes multiple days to > > >> build world as the build must be done single threaded due to a lack of > > >> RAM (building LLVM is the worst offender here). > > > > I plugged in a "WD SSD Passport" USB disk, it supports BIO_DELETE and > > performs so much better than a SD card, that swapon(8) is a good idea. > > > > I will also repeat again: We ignore the RPi4 at our peril. > > Show me the TRM. > Please show me a way to do this without looking at linux GPL driver. > > > RPi's are a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in particular > > for educators. > > In what way ? > Real answer only. I am not pro-pi, but ease of availability in education is a valid point. I work for a University and we have to buy through vetted suppliers, Farnell have an education front end called onecall that we use a lot for electronics and components. Right now they have 50000 raspberry pi 4's [1] available, I suspect I could get enough for a class with a days turn around. Other boards are not the same, we tried to buy the macchiatobin a few years ago and were unable to get a delivery date that was acceptable. However, I agree with manu, without documentation this is a moot point. I don't see a university (or secondary school) investing the time (money) to support the pi, a FreeBSD developer might. We need an interested FreeBSD developer and they need documentation for us to have a hope of supporting the board. [1]: https://onecall.farnell.com/buy-raspberry-pi?ICID=I-HP-PP-PI-3a-1783488 - [tj]