From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 14 17:16:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759CAA2F90B for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:16:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 261171B88 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:16:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by qkfo3 with SMTP id o3so77399004qkf.1 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:16:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jL310iG4kp+VRhZiXKLrwqc08dV7STFVvOfVADpHOTo=; b=Za6S79yIsgCRrzejopjl7yefUGlQIJkzmC69lBFF2QPUHCJDN7RF9EcpyN2cvztYFE 9wtOhZrMFA+k750WFZECZtncAOdOpDRkyJ2tCIxN3+MQtgQ1SJcQF1+9yjaB1HuPxIKd n8qzoMa9Aq3WzHox0JBI0TB7Etvcj9AhDF9dO1UVx6zR7upJuhxEPYbMSoBTFN+7TVRZ IYu8o5AGI9vfWezfEHWMd/DiC6WRMbs4pXootOripm7XAgP4EyedC1bX1fno/cQXWilN auSKOeQX9IBFpZ/g4pCAfTKpLZJBbto9LFXkhrkJhezFnVOgDSDWCQGBFgZqIawVh4wu ZYBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jL310iG4kp+VRhZiXKLrwqc08dV7STFVvOfVADpHOTo=; b=WuMBxPsJ0EZN1/zA2zvp/ziDdTOuYh+oIH6FaVoy071nCsZylZEX7AgkJI4J5HOE1x 0iH6DvZoy6B7RekDzFwMEUIfPjy5O2jrQIx4DqttqcWUbkfuMPlFs3qHGD+p7E39IOdW UMxRfpJCx+169/70Gco0xe/Tb9iNyFNGs+UddiaDixXyHSQcbm7EGFD2etxO/yiq+Dt/ tGEZMLJR8NIaKYLeN3NGXKVnyyo5Cq6/gtH30oqcLsdBUjjkNgKD8yNnZKcdLjYPe1NE b0FRF6BLHwlhrkRwEYETmvh6ltyjf0e0vcsat4JvQT6/1M0pRlz2zt2WqLrpBSvFEztG NiZw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn9mN4V3LOuv1v1/cEWRBse04gvIXVhlnU0MKltrb+mw6SD/iP68BYrqQMm2jNjB7gBV+tW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.55.21.65 with SMTP id f62mr28381468qkh.46.1447521389132; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:16:29 -0800 (PST) Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.140.27.181 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:16:28 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [50.253.99.174] In-Reply-To: <5646D19C.9010304@interlinked.me> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> <20151108155501.GA1901@alchemy.franken.de> <563F8385.3090603@freebsd.org> <56417100.5050600@Wilcox-Tech.com> <39947478-4710-47D8-BAB1-FC93979570B6@mail.turbofuzz.com> <5646D19C.9010304@interlinked.me> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 10:16:28 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vqPm-WLmHdfGHk249Gt9ofeyifI Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Warner Losh To: Elizabeth Myers Cc: "Brian McGovern (bmcgover)" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-arch , Anna Wilcox , "sparc64@freebsd.org" , Sean Bruno , Marius Strobl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:16:30 -0000 On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Elizabeth Myers wrote: > You are seriously going to use "we're not NetBSD" as an argument? You noticed I didn't reply to it. The argument is completely lame. FreeBSD runs today in a variety of markets. Some new, some not so new. The thing that makes each of these areas unique is that there's a thriving community around them, FreeBSD still runs well enough on these machines to get something done, and when things break, they get fixed in a timely manner. Alpha was removed because it got broken by some changes, and stayed broken for a long time despite repeated requests to fix it. Sparc64 is on the cusp of that: some minor things are broken, but have been fixed. The current crisis is due to the end of life of gcc in the tree and its fallout coupled with some neglect of the port due to time constraints. At first I was all for removal. With more data, I'm less sure. If the promises are kept made in this thread, it looks to remain viable for a while, though the lack of a qemu-user solution means that packages for a slow platform (where they are really quite useful) will remain limited. Maybe there's enough hardware around that third-party pkg repos can fill the gap, maybe not. I think we should experiment with this model and see what it produces. Give the branching of 11 as the deadline to show something viable... Warner