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Date:      Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:06:10 +0200
From:      Matthias Andree <mandree@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Rene Ladan <rene@freebsd.org>, mat <mat@freebsd.org>
Cc:        ports-committers@freebsd.org, svn-ports-all@freebsd.org, svn-ports-head@freebsd.org, core <core@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r531475 - in head/dns/dnsmasq: . files
Message-ID:  <541f58d5-f232-bbb9-79e5-fbe6a4e5a5b3@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <20200412092006.GA28960@freefall.freebsd.org>
References:  <202004120216.03C2GAr3064540@repo.freebsd.org> <20200412092006.GA28960@freefall.freebsd.org>

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From: Matthias Andree <mandree@FreeBSD.org>
To: Rene Ladan <rene@freebsd.org>, mat <mat@freebsd.org>
Cc: ports-committers@freebsd.org, svn-ports-all@freebsd.org,
 svn-ports-head@freebsd.org, core <core@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <541f58d5-f232-bbb9-79e5-fbe6a4e5a5b3@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: Re: svn commit: r531475 - in head/dns/dnsmasq: . files
References: <202004120216.03C2GAr3064540@repo.freebsd.org>
 <20200412092006.GA28960@freefall.freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <20200412092006.GA28960@freefall.freebsd.org>

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Am 12.04.20 um 11:20 schrieb Rene Ladan:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:16:10AM +0000, Matthias Andree wrote:
>> Author: mandree
>> Date: Sun Apr 12 02:16:10 2020
>> New Revision: 531475
>> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/ports/531475
>>
>> Log:
>>   dns/dnsmasq: repair damage from UNAUTHORIZED UCL conversion of pkg-m=
essage
>>  =20
>>   The pkg-message contains a security note that is necessary on
>>   new installs and on updates alike.
>>  =20
>>   Since per the porter's handbook, the UCL does not support enumeratio=
n
>>   of types, and this is not relevant on removal, the UCL change must b=
e
>>   reverted.  While here, remove formatting.
>>  =20
>>   Failure inducing commit:
>>   |-------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>>   |r508835 | mat | 2019-08-13 18:01:59 +0200 (Tue, 13 Aug 2019) | 2 li=
nes
>>   |
>>   |Convert to UCL & cleanup pkg-message (categories d)
>>   |
>>   |-------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>>  =20
>>   NOTE: The UCL conversion of files/pkg-message.in was not authorized
>>   and damaging and no heads-up was sent to the maintainer.
>>  =20
>>   portmgr@ MUST act more carefully with sweeping changes and hand them=
 out
>>   for review first.
>>
> You are clearly missing the bigger picture here, which is to only show =
users
> messages from pkg when they are needed.  pkg-message *does* support sho=
wing
> messages on both install and update (see section 9.1.1 of
> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/pkg-=
files.html )
>=20
> This page also notes: "Committers have blanket approval to constrain ex=
isting
> messages to install or upgrade ranges using the UCL format specificatio=
ns."
>=20
> Please revert and fix properly.

Rene, Mat,

there is nothing to revert "or fix" for this port, nor for my other
ports I have changed last night.

I have looked at each and every UCL conversion mat@ did WRT my ports in
August 2019, and I have kept those that were correct, but some were not,
and I have repaired (fixed) them already.

Half of those changes however were missing the experience, knowledge and
intent the pkg-message and where they need to overcome user roadblocks
(some may well have been direct e-mails to the maintainer, me) that
users have hit and the pkg-message helped to overcome before the
conversion, and limiting those messages to "install" and removing them
from "update" time was harmful.


=3D=3D portmgr@s missing team mind =3D=3D

I have been maintaining some of those ports for longer than some
portmgr@ members are in office, and I find it overbearing that I now
must read about "missing the bigger picture" from a portmgr@ member.
portmgr@ is not wiser about the history of my ports than I am, please
don't assume that, and not all of the causes for pkg-messages are
publicly visible, because some flew out of direct email from users to
the port maintainer.

And if other committers are, in your perception, missing the big
picture, then VERY OBVIOUSLY that big picture either has not been drawn
at all, or not in a way that people assemble to admire it and contribute
to it.  To me, it is crucial and of paramount importance that there is a
public reference for the motivation and rationale for such changes, be
that UCL in pkg-message, or static REINPLACE_CMD must be made patches.


At the very least the UCL changes were made without prior heads-up,
without a note in ports/CHANGES, without opportunity for review. This
was just rolled out in the incomplete and underspecified implementation,
then sweeping changes to ports were made.

This all reveals again and again that some people in the current
portmgr@ "team" are not team-minded at all but just blindly overrule
responsive and responsible port committers that are also long-time port
maintainers, without asking them first.  This beaviour must cease. Now.

I expect that sweeping changes are discussed and announced with a
timeframe to raise objections (see below what was missed technically)

And portmgr@ need to be more team-minded, and past portmgr@ line-ups
were just that and were discussing sweeping changes with all involved
committers or at least sending heads-up with a time window to raise
objections - this can be studied publicly because a lot happened on lists=
=2E


Excursion: Also the REINPLACE_CMD motion (mostly swills@ effort
apparently) is not very team-minded and purely technically driven
without any regard what maintenance debt this burdens on maintainers if
it is lived to the letter. End excursion.

We must get back to proper team work, and I am running out of means to
stop rampant and disputed changes and presumptuous change requests I see
from portmgr@ that would either require me to invest a lot more time.

=3D=3D UCL missing features =3D=3D

Here's what's missing from the UCL pkg-message stuff you've linked to:
- the porter's handbook does not specify ordering or combination of UCL
"sections"
- the porter's handbook does not specify a way how I can mark some
paragraphs "for install and update" *without* duplicating the relevant
texts.

NOTE: Duplication of material is prone to fall apart as it will be
maintained over time, and hence duplication must be avoided above all.
mail/mailman's pkg-message is such a mess now because of a missing
feature of the pkg/UCL pkg-message rig.


If a message must be shown on install AND update and before I go to the
maintenance nightmares of actually duplicating work, I am reverting to
compatibility mode which achieves just what the port needs - inform the
port users not only on first install (possibly years ago) but also on
updates.

Don't mess with my ports again unless you *REALLY* know what you are
doing. Mat@ wasn't, last August. He can't be expected, but I can expect
portmgr@ members to ask about the why and when my pkg-messages are
needed, rather than guess wrong.

Regards,
Matthias


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