From nobody Mon Apr 4 05:27:59 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822AC1A5FF3C for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2022 05:28:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x22b.google.com (mail-oi1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4KWzpc6N3Zz3t8j for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2022 05:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id q129so9087069oif.4 for ; Sun, 03 Apr 2022 22:28:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LbA4STjvLujUAdtDlPu7eyiUG6/AMXvJm+7mYcbF9jc=; b=AqDaD5jBBPaPGYgo+MZxhGwRlxkfDesASJMqsKggp+2FbRBqGRwADlUEXMTXqa3Sm7 ClmmxjXoCcLeviaWtDxO81GEUMs7RXtx8ZGgioOUmDeAFeayWkyDonyAOFRKBaCOsXUP l3L8uP7z7GR2zlPuB40Y+L+7vmrDxknv+ubJR51OpdytET0BtgQhapBHEd1WDRIbF0ve FtZeEyc4xsIdUo/3rVBkrQ0z6yDIDwkVOrhYSGeG8lg9FdLnRx06uushIOVfktlmfbd4 hymiOeVnOr4bykuqg2eh0GIKRhz7frC2U9I2pK6uJJ24xP9Tj9NCSShAl3ZWzkyi0Af7 5Ysw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LbA4STjvLujUAdtDlPu7eyiUG6/AMXvJm+7mYcbF9jc=; b=fsyNGIiiFL2oqU6k6C4Kr5Vva9FNSMEM1juJb/B58uFFYW/hSSM68AJduYlEaOPvUr /5RxzeeYYxNyuzASepVnoRGuSoZH+zrPv7ViAfcNsP6D08nXdonVz3Rkxrw6GgMIGO2b 8YFcigZTuMXoGMfwDosq36920MLHOa7l5Cudwyt5K/YHg1hpngYUnZPP17lSfXg6E7h2 0jFH9pk3Wq/w5t/rJEs4TixrZ/MPXobLWFZj5LOp8mw4SUxY+Jx90c0gQj5Zy3puu0T3 HttLoqRfVIM7ypya9d+P5YrHcZNNamAEIxA5qFjZCpMY/KhnhJGS2P5+UuvEz0YKhpXy ueWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ppgPTlrMuWNr8em5bB5d06wsog3Atc4ht6/x6vHe/L6/jkUfj +NBLbdGNOABnNKlP+hqKEqKyGyoCf42ZQUhZm0XkDudi X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzeOOguHgp+Z0BPMyCRrtkSVQGUzIlF83w4SpMdCNuCn5qa0EPst9326Xv1qkjLWPPCWTVHyUaj5Vq26UScrps= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1305:b0:2da:5086:fa34 with SMTP id y5-20020a056808130500b002da5086fa34mr9391944oiv.230.1649050136159; Sun, 03 Apr 2022 22:28:56 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Oberman Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2022 22:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Slow startup from D19488 (rtsol: sendmsg: Permission denied) To: Peter Cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000095287805dbcd673c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4KWzpc6N3Zz3t8j X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=AqDaD5jB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kob6558@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kob6558@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --00000000000095287805dbcd673c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 6:36 AM Peter wrote: > On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 08:59:24PM -0700, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > ! > ! I am a bit puzzled as after two years you are the first one to report > ! > ! that problem to my knowledge for either base system or jails. > ! > > ! > This is what greatly wonders me, too. So I was stronly thinking > ! > that I am doing something wrong or unusual. But I cannot figure > ! > it out, it just seems that the detrimental effect of the change > ! > cannot be avoided (e.g. "service jail start" takes quite long now - > ! > there's a lot of them). > > ! This may be irrelevant, but updating to the stable branch is not > ! recommended as it is not regularly tested. Updating to 13.0-Release and > ! then to stable is less likely to be problematic. > > Hi Kevin, > > (You are Kevin Oberman the network guru ?!?) > > Maybe a decade or so ago. After over a decade of retirement, I'm not sure how BGP is spelled. And why would the network fib? JK. I do recall what a Forwarding Information Base is. You're essentially right, and I would normally agree. And it is not > irrelevant, but then, it's apparently not related to this specific > issue. > > The point is: I am not interested in 13.0. I am interested in > 13.1. So I put up a pilot early, in order to report potential issues > (as I reported here the issue with the fix for PR 76398). At that > point this had to be stable/13. > > Then on saturday I tried to use fib, and I figured that fib is not > fully implenented in 12.3, but apparently it is in 13. So I decided > to give it a try and move my backbone to 13 - and to the same version > that is already running on the pilot system, so that there is some > base to compare things. > > Now there are issues - but it doesn't appear that these issues would > be very different between stable/13 and releng/13.1. And -as can be > read above- it neither looks like these issues would just disappear > by themselves in the release, without someone looking for them. > (The broken "ipfw fwd" is probably also present in 13.0 and will very > likely still be present in 13.1 - and I don't believe much in testing > because you can only test what you already expect to fail.) > > I am indeed pondering about the best approach. Over the last years > I was only doing release upgrades (after I had run into ugly ZFS > problems somewhere in Rel.10, caused by an intermediately broken > Stable *and* broken memory chips). > Now I am considering to do upgrades some 2-3 months ahead of the > release, so if there are problems that hit here, there is a chance > to spare the general public one or two troubles. > > cheerio, > PMc > Well, that does explain a bit. I'm not sure of the best way to troubleshoot this. It is extremely unlikely that it's broken on STABLE and fixed in 13.1-BETA or RC. Sorry I can't be more useful. If I had experience with FIBs on FreeBSD. It's not the same as RIBs and FIBs on Junipers. -- Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 --00000000000095287805dbcd673c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 6:36 AM = Peter <pmc@citylink.dinoe= x.sub.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 08:59:24P= M -0700, Kevin Oberman wrote:

! > ! I am a bit puzzled as after two years you are the first one to rep= ort
! > ! that problem to my knowledge for either base system or jails.
! >
! > This is what greatly wonders me, too. So I was stronly thinking
! > that I am doing something wrong or unusual. But I cannot figure
! > it out, it just seems that the detrimental effect of the change
! > cannot be avoided (e.g. "service jail start" takes quite l= ong now -
! > there's a lot of them).

! This may be irrelevant, but updating to the stable branch is not
! recommended as it is not regularly tested. Updating to 13.0-Release and ! then to stable is less likely to be problematic.

Hi Kevin,

=C2=A0 (You are Kevin Oberman the network guru ?!?)

Maybe a decad= e or so ago. After over a decade of retirement,=C2=A0 I'm not sure how = BGP is spelled. And why would the network fib?

JK. I do recall what a F= orwarding Information Base is.

<= /div>
=C2=A0 You're essentially right, and I would normally agree. And it is = not
irrelevant, but then, it's apparently not related to this specific
issue.

The point is: I am not interested in 13.0. I am interested in
13.1. So I put up a pilot early, in order to report potential issues
(as I reported here the issue with the fix for PR 76398). At that
point this had to be stable/13.

Then on saturday I tried to use fib, and I figured that fib is not
fully implenented in 12.3, but apparently it is in 13. So I decided
to give it a try and move my backbone to 13 - and to the same version
that is already running on the pilot system, so that there is some
base to compare things.

Now there are issues - but it doesn't appear that these issues would be very different between stable/13 and releng/13.1. And -as can be
read above- it neither looks like these issues would just disappear
by themselves in the release, without someone looking for them.
(The broken "ipfw fwd" is probably also present in 13.0 and will = very
likely still be present in 13.1 - and I don't believe much in testing because you can only test what you already expect to fail.)

I am indeed pondering about the best approach. Over the last years
I was only doing release upgrades (after I had run into ugly ZFS
problems somewhere in Rel.10, caused by an intermediately broken
Stable *and* broken memory chips).
Now I am considering to do upgrades some 2-3 months ahead of the
release, so if there are problems that hit here, there is a chance
to spare the general public one or two troubles.

cheerio,
PMc

Well, that does explain a bi= t. I'm not sure of the best way to troubleshoot this. It is extremely u= nlikely that it's broken on STABLE and fixed in 13.1-BETA or RC.

Sorry I can't be more useful. If I ha= d experience with FIBs on FreeBSD. It's not the same as RIBs and FIBs o= n Junipers.
--
Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer
E-m= ail: rkoberman@gma= il.com
PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1= B055683
--00000000000095287805dbcd673c--