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Sat, 2 Jul 2022 19:00:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 19:00:54 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Pau Amma CC: Postmaster , FreeBSD accessibility Subject: Re: Please switch freebsd-accessibility@ to open posting User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <98972db391c2cd06388e8200815b1ed8@gundo.com> References: <20220630065413.xx4ufbjjzhsa5hut@aniel.nours.eu> <98972db391c2cd06388e8200815b1ed8@gundo.com> Message-ID: List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1656781258; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=TCsADp5nkfm1CQqWm9aQS7DjhvE+5iO4z2KSFB1jDDM=; b=kqhnoPmbCo3qQBpT/nckifIQ+R1y2Yz6D4TyS0EJspawliGs/G3YBIr/kKSgJ3qOtvOTFu 4H1S6VtlrJgVfVt89aAOvG3dGmPfp9iyojmsrsIn96/8y9R19ZkQ16O3k2j7GOPAiHctZk NfZ7C/U2jY63s/vhKa13BWm6bCwFni/eqdWVxb2PXcTCRd8RImIftF3DWaIFlt9j4/SoWH 79mvYuT+pvMRHNckuSamBbHUWDxGV2+Ru51O8Ogu0EW9rTdSDnrqY6SyRcFvcDspxFok8w C27By+BcZVF98V8EBrIC1t20rxHaFIECEhlmSkOdHbBSzzgMDGBvRnExt3Dkxg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1656781258; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=eeDQz3cXqkWitDA9RdDIVEBkHn+HYuJSv4pVZa1R74E/3MMTdCmOpjmT84el/+9yMIvy63 goKAmccGd4OAKiPOtGGnsceOIGDpSnN5awNlWN7DH4GcsEp0D/Ud04wgQnlp3hi9gu+qbB aF7JE4bC7L3dhvRJaCnBnwu/FUKPXJJu9Q5CruXXyb97CPdCoEogQGxPFB/dVuDIgDSuIK u+AQpo1ktdXdpIkDhNzxfG/r4b5b3x0anF8s7FW60sxL4imtneFdfPaGYzOsj8JGtGVFI+ LKgYN6OzgsMSBhD17MlRhvZiXc4wbE2SfxYeFCT2MbgB8Km+ItltsniSI5knbQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Le 2 juillet 2022 08:23:53 GMT+02:00, Pau Amma a =C3= =A9crit=C2=A0: >On 2022-06-30 06:54, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 03:13:09AM +0000, Pau Amma wrote: >>> I meant for it to be when I requested its creation and thought based o= n the >>> email I received asking for list information that it would be by defau= lt, >>> but per https://bugs=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/bugzilla/show_bug=2Ecgi?id=3D2648= 95#c5, the >>> default was changed silently=2E >>=20 >> Yes when you requested you specifically asked for open mailing list it = wasn't >> changed silently it was missed in the initial request by myself, otherw= ise I >> would have answered the following: >> By default we do setup all the mailing list as subscription only >> and/or moderated, >> most mailing list were configured like this long ago and I first >> dropped it for 6 >> month this politic while migrating to mlmmj and reinstanciated it back= =2E Why? >> because of the amount of spam that went through the mailing lists and >> creates lot >> of work for us postmaster: >> - dealing with people complaining about spam in the mailing lists >> - monitoring such emails and flagging them as such to cleanup the publi= c >> archives as much as possible from the spam etc=2E >>=20 >> So beside strong arguments > >Here's one: "nothing about us without us"=2E > >Accordingly, please consider the following: >- post an apology to the list for accidentally not making it open then cl= aiming "Subscription is easy" instead of asking us, including those of us w= ith cognitive disabilities, how harder that extra hoop to jump through make= s posting for us=2E >- acknowledge the list exists primarily for our benefit, not the benefit = of postmaster members or FreeBSD contributors as a whole (see the note at t= he end of https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/archives/freebsd-accessibility/202= 1-October/000000=2Ehtml for another example of that)=2E >- ask us what we need and want, mention constraints you have that are or = may be relevant (like the effort curbing spam and any others that you think= also worth mentioning), then let us hash out the trade-offs and what works= better for us=2E > >It may be that no clear consensus or decision emerges, or that one emerge= s agreeing with your position=2E I'm not the only one with a stake in this,= and will abide by the outcome=2E That, however, doesn't excuse you from re= aching out to us or doing due diligence=2E > >Thanks for reading=2E > Wow just wow, I believe we deserve a minimum of respect and benevolence=2E= Being patronized like that is clearly the opposite of that=2E We are spending countless hours of free time to try to provide the best se= rvice as possible with the resource we have, we make mistake, we can also m= ake bad choices and they can be revisited, but clearly not with such a disr= espectful tone=2E Bapt