From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 27 07:18:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA6AAF55; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:18:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-x22e.google.com (mail-ob0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 784E5187B; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:18:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f174.google.com with SMTP id uy5so6022448obc.19 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 23:18:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=bKfR4Uq4dfLfAfa2U84zI4JKZ927oV0tViZ+92Jd444=; b=VWk/MRxlrFA9haO3d7pDIMF0kPayO/yD7t/pjtIulRD9O4FGCirxPnfWpyb+DR6ikY skQUhyBBRJ03gygYbjANek0ZW+mLY5nE8hCjqM5cCplZ5GxkvabEHjhRkD2N/MSXIuWk 400KL1+1klmIBmohG3lioocJfCCIUSdXMALsDs/ZpZKFWwOITj2WjoK9dn4ZUoTno6Fg rA6Pwc7l8GnDAvH+S8ueWfd2xhjd6O836LA6ryncIdgOqYGTofOw753jOL1WS7oFR/5a eVbxytkVIkB+v8PP9BIxVrSc0XJtXDkr9yBCCSqIy9LxaxicqrH6a6t5Qm4q+QjOlNcO toUw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.223.37 with SMTP id qr5mr4202573obc.41.1390807083230; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 23:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.141.196 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 23:18:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52E603EB.6030204@freebsd.org> References: <52E43A80.4030501@rawbw.com> <52E44BC1.7040404@rawbw.com> <52E46D44.6050403@freebsd.org> <52E47EF7.7040402@ohlste.in> <52E55186.7020009@freebsd.org> <52E55361.3000108@freebsd.org> <52E5757F.8000604@freebsd.org> <52E5CBDD.4090803@freebsd.org> <52E5F14B.4060102@freebsd.org> <52E603EB.6030204@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 02:18:02 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays? From: Aryeh Friedman To: Alfred Perlstein Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: FreeBSD Ports ML X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:18:05 -0000 On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 1:59 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On 1/26/14, 10:56 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> >> I'm not sure, I'm going to go load up healthcare.gov to see if I can >> order myself some free aspirin after this "discussion". >> > > At least my build system has never caused me to need an aspirin (normal > debugging is bad enough). Sarcasm aside, to bring this thread back on > track, the important issues are: > > * The development model used by aegis is likely the cleanest > development cycle I have seen (main reason for this is Peter Miller is one > of the few SCM and build management theorists [vs. just hacking something > til it works]). The model is namely (repeat as needed) > develop->test->review->integrate... note that test comes before review for > the simple reason to even get to review you must build correctly and pass > all your own tests (isn't this the main goal of automating the port system > anyways)... also keep in mind we can use this model without necessarily > switching to aegis per se. With or without aegis, it would save the ports > team a lot of time to be able to build and test a port automatically before > they spend any time reviewing the code. Aegis, by default, enforces this > model. > > * GitHub *REQUIRES* all developers (including all port maintainers -- > not just the committers) to switch to GitHub. On the other hand, if the > ports team were to use aegis and/or cook, this would NOT require any > changes at all from the POV of maintainers. Even on the ports team, most > members would need to learn nothing more than 6 new basic commands... > (portmgr@ would need to learn a lot more though depending on what kind of > non-standard processing needs to be done in integration). > > Using git doesn't require switching to github. I'm not sure what you're > smoking that's leading you to believe that, maybe you should also try to > log onto healthcare.gov to figure out what's causing your level of > confusion! > Again not 100% correct. it does require you to have githup-like functionality (githup or a clone of it) if you want to do any sort of distributed repos... aegis does not (all of its distributions are in normal formats like tar.gz and patches [these are automatically generated on demand])... and more importantly your solution seems to revolve around requiring the use of a tool over the model that it enforces (which can be done by many different tools).... have you ever heard of making your requirements technology neutral and *THEN* seeing what techs (if any) fit the bill... this is how we found aegis in the first place... in some cases we may find (and I think the current port system may be one of these cases) that no new tools are needed; all that is needed is the reorganizing of existing manual procedures (which can then later be automated if desired). > * If there are modifications to the overall port system, switching to > aegis and/or cook would not require changes to individual ports like GitHub > seems to > > >> I skimmed the rest of your message and nothing really stuck out as >> something worth perusing. I guess I have to say is that I hope you enjoy >> Agis so much that you and the 10 other people using it are able to >> proselytize it to the success that git and github have had. You certainly >> seem passionate about it! >> > > It would be nice if you could refrain from commenting on stuff you can't > be bothered to "peruse." > > > Likewise! > I at least took the time to check what GitHub could do and what it and what it couldn't... this is just common sense when criticizing something -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org