From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 24 09:31:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08976 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (armstrong-bh.armstrong.com [198.76.107.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08957 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com) From: Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id MAA10688 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailex01.armstrong.com(172.16.23.51) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com via smap (4.1) id xmaa10662; Fri, 24 Jul 98 12:30:26 -0400 Received: by mailex01.Armstrong.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8525664B.005BC272 ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:42:15 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ARMSTRONG To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <8625664B.0056D8AA.00@mailex01.Armstrong.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:31:15 -0500 Subject: RE: FreeBSD Newbies FAK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd really like to see the tech support system, whatever it turns out to be, set up into: * One area with what do I need to install/how to install/what is FreeBSD type questions * One area for support after the system is running, much like 90% of the messages in -questions. Links to each question list would be easy to set up on the WWW sites, a simple "Do you now have FreeBSD running on your computer?" would be enough. I think the comments about the changing face of the average newbie from "new to FreeBSD" to "new to Unix style systems" is very true. However, this is to be expected as the face of the average computer user overall changes. When my dad and I built our first computer from a kit, we were computer newbies as neither of us had used one before. However, we were at a different level than the newbie of today who gets a computer off the shelf at a local store just like a toaster. As much as I hate to admit it 8^) this is a good thing because it makes the "industry" grow and that brings better things for all of us. Here, I'm pretty much one of the new type. I'm trying to use the system for my own hobby use, at home, in my own limited free time. >From what I have seen the instructions available from the main www.freebsd.org site are still directed at the first type of newbie. While it gives simple directions to make the boot disk, etc., if there are any issues about the install you're in trouble. Perhaps I missed it, but is the bit about not disabling the system console because that particular conflicting resource is OK listed anywhere in the install directions? That's the kind of stuff that really stumps the new users. I've heard lots of people say they got bit by that one when they installed. When I tried to figure out what all the different codes represented while doing that initial configuration, the listings in the documentation didn't match the ones actually used on the screen. That made figuring out which resource killed the machine very difficult. As I've hung around here and on -questions for a few months I'm starting to pick up and save tips and links to WWW sites that contain information I need. Things aren't as confusing now, but in the beginning getting up to the level to be able to ask semi-understandable questions was tough. It seems to me that if the progression from never used FreeBSD to FreeBSD expert was a ladder, rungs 2 through 4 would be missing (or possible hidden in the basement of the building next door). You can do it, but it certainly seems designed to dissuade all but the very dedicated. It that is the idea, that's fine. If the goal is to really make the system a competitor to the mainstream systems this needs some work. Or at least one of those Dummy's Guide To FreeBSD books published. 8^) One thing I've seen in industry is having a spec/manual/document (whatever) that is very information intensive that caters to the people who use it every day and are familiar with all the details. Then there is another version of the same document with all kinds of additional definitions, details, examples, history, etc. to bring you up to speed. The National Electrical Code works that way, I've seen electrical specifications work that way, and I like that approach. I am NOT trying to look down on the efforts of the group that created FreeBSD. I think this is absolutely amazing that such a system can exist as free software. I will continue to follow here and -questions. I do intend to keep beating on the system until I learn how it works and get it running. I'm not even upset, I'm smiling as I write this. I'm the kind of person who likes to add the missing rungs, that's all. This is NOT to complain, just to see if other newbies feel the same way. Ed Speaking for me, not for Armstrong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message