From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 1 02:46:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E361423F36 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2019 02:46:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 312748FEF5 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2019 02:46:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp59-167-167-3.static.internode.on.net [59.167.167.3]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x012kQLV041551 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 Jan 2019 13:46:32 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x012kKhD019896 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Jan 2019 13:46:20 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x012kK6t019895; Tue, 1 Jan 2019 13:46:20 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 13:46:20 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Igor Mozolevsky Cc: Hackers freeBSD Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components Message-ID: <20190101024620.GA19629@server.rulingia.com> References: <5B476178-4D09-486F-AC58-47CB04965335@FreeBSD.org> <2C39D05E-E855-4FCE-82CF-83EA4AE9F84A@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SUOF0GtieIMvvwua" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.1 (2018-12-01) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2019 02:46:38 -0000 --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-Jan-01 00:53:48 +0000, Igor Mozolevsky wrot= e: >Quite frankly the compile time isn't really *that* important, I disagree. FreeBSD seems to be heading back to the batch days - you submit your buildworld request and come back tomorrow to see if it worked. That is a significant hinderance to development and, based on various mailing list comments, is causing breakage because developers are cutting corners due to the pain involved in running "make universe" before they make a large change. >longer (if not much longer) build times might push toward a better >modularisation and compartmentalisation of the OS and the kernel so a >small change in the kernel, for example, doesn't require the >recompilation of the whole damn thing when nothing else is affected. Two problems here: 1) make doesn't seem to be sufficient to correctly describe a dependency tree to allow incremental/partial builds (at, everyone I'm aware of who has a successful incremental build system has started by migrating off make). This means that a significant part of the work will be re-writing the FreeBSD build system into something else like (eg) Bazel. 2) The bottleneck very quickly turns into the linker. --=20 Peter Jeremy --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAlwq1HxfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzRVBQ/9EgXTl657fef+6Bt2D2NZ7ZHmn6ZXafVEmLTmgylVVkpz1NWZj+xnPCay lalPaxTCXidAT5Urpb8hsd+/3QtvlLdZEzDvOho8gfmjkzLTGQnG6BHT2xLp3+Ke 676z+PGtuXhfOPwyxc0Rhnik2pHhp5GDLGGw9VfSTxZMk7uhNdBS92HRGtAWJQli GNz/LX42dxrYeZ4UHlDbo+je3SvTiwgiXA4e+1X4TY6ENLIjiVX/XzGV3J49QL/Q d8zbPYde1ZrOkJyeZ3oJ5zNhB1GQY5d9XEs8I4QU069klwDbE5+pUnxCtO9wit6R 9KHFa5nCT4wr4q3EbSM5kyfDJUx32cewN35cZMnzBj60whY6xDRVhMuOzQb0OKZH iId6s4bOklzqbbcB32k8pauXey4ImiPt9hE3c4uDsrkGaIm9XGbV0stTZtdbXiKJ 88DHlTHtETA0bizaNP2UQbuegckqZ3yV9OJ5NE6+O5aOcfYo2uOjo8Qe2zUw0Tlp HR00BqpB8Bs7uHHUZ7f+XYB/tlRQ+oF/b9PNI3aiC52dNN2/leuYtrYVVK650Oh/ NzsWlVnbBU1qsG1LDpipFypKXOcSsBitbZADWDVxHQJ1uvJtcZ67mZKTGX03C3HA K2PX5c1vg2RFIgLEqPZB2ipUyyDX+Txm2kvzqE0oAR4e9iRWnY8= =5C9r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua--