Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 18:42:57 -0400 From: Joe Nosay <superbisquit@gmail.com> To: Chris Benesch <chris.benesch@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Leaving the Desktop Market Message-ID: <CA%2BWntOusd0oSKFjTfDrCT6BF2JTWaAG14q2tF2hChwYVgL4bYg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <012601cf501f$063db7b0$12b92710$@gmail.com> References: <CAF6rxgkeBozvfV-L0%2BrFZ6fWRn0=Gi3BNq1kPL=-HTq0TD6MkQ@mail.gmail.com> <A70900DF-4BAA-427F-8731-01211FFD1887@mail.turbofuzz.com> <CAM9wqY9STvt7%2BrMVkX6G0UmyEe6g86DAS89FXQCnsN5_uRT6-w@mail.gmail.com> <1452c5f24a0.277d.49425171f56f22d4251074c8012c3090@comcast.net> <014901cf5019$1de587e0$59b097a0$@gmail.com> <012601cf501f$063db7b0$12b92710$@gmail.com>
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On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Chris Benesch <chris.benesch@gmail.com>wrote: > Hi guys, I've been watching this heated discussion for a few days and here > is my $.02 > > I'm not your average computer user either. I learned BASIC on a Commodore > 64 back in 84 and decided my collection of toys was nowhere hear as fun as > making ascii art dance across the screen, or flying a carat symbol through > a > canyon made of asterisks. Then I learned sprites and within a month had > the > byte codes to make a circle down in my head. Amazing what young brain can > do before you hit high school and ruin it with partying :-) > > I work in the software development field now professionally, mostly on > large > AIX systems. My wet dream has always been to go to a full Linux / BSD > desktop for work and entertainment. I don't do a lot of gaming, so that's > not a huge issue, but there always ends up being something. Some little > thing that works fine on Windows and doesn't on *nix. I can usually find a > workaround, but again, out of the box if it weren't for my stubbornness I > would switch back pretty quickly. > > I remember everyones complaint with *nix systems 10 years ago was hardware > support. "Oh theres plenty of software to do everything, but my XXX > graphics card doesn't work" Now, it's the opposite. I spend half a day > installing windows on a system and finding all the drivers, whereas *nix > picks it all up right out of the box. > > We also had an old laptop and finally caved to give our 12 year old son his > own computer. The first thing I thought was "Ok I'll just throw XP on it > with Firefox and AVG" Since all he really does is look up pictures to > print > out and color and play flash games. I come back a month later to do some > updates and make sure its all up to date and its running like a slug. No > viruses, nothing like that, just Winrot. So I threw Lubuntu on it and its > been humming along fine and snappy for 6 months now. It also allowed me to > get in via SSH and set up a cron job to shut itself down when hes not > supposed to be on it :) He adapted to the new environment easily and > happily uses LXDE on an Ubuntu clone and goes to school and uses Windows. > It surprises even me how adaptable he is given he has mild autism. I guess > what I'm saying is coming from a blank slate, *nix works great. > > The problem, and the largest market share is the people in the middle. > Those who are used to Windows, aren't real hackers and don't want to learn > new stuff, they just want to go in and have everything look and act like > they are used to. And they don't want to lose the ability to play their > copy of Duke Nukem 3-D they bought long ago either :-) > > As I see it, the solution is kind of simple. We are already there minus > the > software that people may want to use that is legacy. Macintosh early on > had > the ability to run .exe files, and through years of hard work, they are a > competitor to Windows. *nix .. sort of does. We need to work the hell out > of Wine and make it built into any desktop distribution. I know easier > said > than done, but the end result would be worth it. > > The day that Bob the car mechanic can go to Wal Mart and spend $500 on a > Windows 8 laptop that runs like a slug, or $300 on a laptop with some *nix > distro that runs twice as fast and both allow him to just pop in the CD > from > an auto manufacturer and run their software will be the turning point. > > The way to really make it drive its point home is gaming. I don't know > much > about the internals of it, but *nix needs some good games or at least a > fast > compatibility layer to play the big ones out there now. > > Bottom line, make it fun and make it compatible. The lower price will > attract plenty of customers. As long as they allow us die hards to install > a text only system we're good :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Perry > Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:18 AM > To: 'Allen' > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; hackers@freebsd.org; current@freebsd.org > Subject: RE: Leaving the Desktop Market > > > > > There is no such thing as a desktop market for *BSD or Linux. > > > > There never has been and there never will be. > > > > Oh come on now, it depends on a couple of things, and I wouldn't go > > that > far. > > I've got a lot of family members that know next to nothing about > computers, > > and I got tired of fixing them all the time. > > > > Just as an example, my cousin basically destroyed his parents computer > > and got a job, and bought himself a brand new computer, and had me set it > up. > > This was a while back and his Windows XP Home computer took all of one > > week too have issues. I updated Windows and saw he had never tried. > > > > I installed Spybot and AVG and updated them and ran them. When I got > > back home, I checked them and they had found over 12,000 infections! > > Everything from trojans and back doors, to those fake security centers. > > > > He is an idiot when it comes to this stuff and I don't mind saying so. > > The > weird > > thing was that all he did on this computer, was go online with a web > browser, > > IM with friend's, and listen to music and download all types of > > things. He > did > > do some homework in between porn marathons too. > > > > My point for all this is that I eventually did something that worked; > > I > installed > > Linux on his computer, made a script to keep it updated, and > > basically, I > had > > KDE installed, Gnome, and a few others, and by setting up KDE and > > putting Web browser short cuts on the desktop, a shortcut to some IM > > clients, an XMMS shortcut, and a few others so that he could do what > > he was doing. I set up some Office suites as well, and this worked. > > His machine stayed up > to > > date without any issues, and he no longer had any problems. > > The common denominator for these types of issues is that the average > consumer isn't properly educated on how to maintain a computer or on > responsible internet browsing. You can only get so far with Geek Squad > before they've exhausted their knowledge and competency of computers in > general. > > > > You know you opened a can of worms with that one. Because all the > > > nerds are going to step up and say "Well, I run FreeBSD on my desktop! > > > It's totally viable!" > > > > Like I said, I wouldn't go that far; Those of us on this list probably > aren't fans > > of Windows, and probably only use it when required, but in the example > > I gave above, I found that people who know literally nothing about > > computers in general, do really well with Linux and BSD as long as I > > took the time > to set > > up the desktop for them and installed all the stuff they needed and > > placed the shortcuts on the desktop. It worked really well. Even my > > Mom who knows nothing about computers, can sit down and use Linux or > > BSD without any trouble, as long as the desktop is set up properly. > > I am a fan of Windows for the most part, probably because I enjoy gaming > and > don't like looking for workarounds to what I've been accustomed to for a > couple of decades now on either Windows or Mac OS (I'm 25...interpret that > as you will). The problem that I've always seen with Linux or BSD in > general > is the fact that you have to take the time to set it up or have someone do > it for you if you have no idea how to read documentation or don't feel > comfortable installing the system yourself. OS X will do the job for the > average consumer wanting a UNIX-like experience with a functional desktop > out of the box even if it costs them their kidney. I myself have little > difficulty with Linux or BSD, but I originally started out my university > life in computer science and am therefore not really your average consumer. > > > > Dear nerds, get some perspective. You aren't an end user, and you're > > > masochistic. It's okay, we accept you here. But your individual use > > > case doesn't indicate a place in the market. Your basement isn't a > > > market. It's a basement. Your small company isn't a market. It's a > > > small company. Many companies combined create a market. > > > > > Back to sleep. > > > > Now see, that has a point, but I do personally think that Unix not > > only > does > > fine on the desktop, but depending on which version, some versions are > > more suited to being used as a desktop than others; PC-BSD for > > example, along with SUSE and even Mandriva, all work well for this. > > That's the very problem with Linux and BSD: which version should I use? > Should I go with openSUSE? Or maybe should I go with Ubuntu? Yeah, Ubuntu > looks like the easier way to find software I want. But then what version of > Ubuntu should I use? Unity, KDE, or something else? What is this OpenBox I > see everyone raving about? I just want iTunes so I can plug in my iPhone > and > listen to my music; what do you mean iTunes won't work? > > The reason there isn't a huge market for consumer Linux or BSD is because > consumers don't care about the alternatives that they have to set up > themselves after figuring out what disc image to download and how to burn > in > to DVD or CD. What Apple and Microsoft have been very good about doing for > the past 20+ years is providing consumers with two very simple options that > work out of the box. Linux and BSD has yet to do the same from what I can > tell, even despite the efforts made by Dell (offering a single laptop > configuration with Ubuntu 12.04) and System76. The freedom that we enjoy > on > BSD or Linux, or just open source as a whole, is a double-edge sword when > dealing with consumers. Despite some project's best efforts, BSD and Linux > still require a certain level of technical knowledge that Best Buy, Target, > Walmart, Fry's, and any other major brick-and-mortar retailer cannot offer > assistance in (because those employees aren't technically educated either > and have most likely only heard of Windows or OS X except in the case of > Fry's). > > I am no opponent of open source at all, but the reason it hasn't done well > in consumer markets is because of the fact that it's open source and offers > far too many choices that the average, generally computer-illiterate > consumer doesn't want to make or simply doesn't care about. All of us > already know that BSD and Linux is at a technical advantage to Windows and > OS X. Until it's as easy to install and set up as it is on OS X or Windows, > it won't go anywhere for consumers. > > Stephen Perry > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > Another alternative is to offer custom built systems using Open Source.
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