From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue May 21 11:27:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A7B215AAC3B for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimpase@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C4489795 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimpase@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 70FBF15AAC3A; Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:56 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C30F15AAC39 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimpase@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 054298978B; Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimpase@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 188so1316464ljf.9; Tue, 21 May 2019 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GWTbY/rvSkrzvVu+QjLa4X0sUjTAvITrN6YdU7ymodM=; b=EWuDhJwLPOF1ZCys65Y4dUKm8fibSQLwLOmQ0M5tCO3Hws4MxeVL7ZRixc9ka78FOj wYwsl51FUo41kusJbW9v2wf45XlKI9HrBQROLY2fM9XfH9LcvvRGiobzsCtR/Kc6Cy5Y Vg/i5kkTjCf5K7SCRrfGQ7rarUsQPGIFfFvdqTLUxl9ql504RUQDGkb2/EFzaUfUWaVE QFIaa/4KEOO8K1GZUlPfBOq4hTtl//LyFvIVMzAHFLKFhRKBeKyI+4BPYVC7+wbMKPLr N5IOxu2TPjzqvOfycuAkIF5XvXN5lVQbbtTPLWCMCNC5Lv8zsaKAaVgeCPx0MtfSL84e Ikow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GWTbY/rvSkrzvVu+QjLa4X0sUjTAvITrN6YdU7ymodM=; b=l1Yqzp5ti0iHiJ0VosMBgPQ2yVw92HeWhNHlkqszOzjYTUtJTAxBBsrIz8KP//J10w xBz5aWZZkUv7NdZbUw3GPjK5Z/wB0Zshmomiw19+WStTeetOyrZGWm2sBle87abNsOF4 E9Uf8QNv9glnTj5yLZRb4s2IJDwjlie7LGA9L2DdzKmeAb5Hfrnl+DyzAOaI7R8eILIO uS5lq1fwJ71/viqJkA8zwXHsWyo+cWMEces685f9rhyfJd3OJbwpzsLMuog+UhgHKNhn W8mOMtAaShsClmlOK1/fNTR5GI6M3tLswS9I5Q37JUOYL81ppLbgr2IP1UXCujXdx/KG mKig== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVcoSgqIi9+aFeVRe0+N8igr/4xc6CpTspUu0xjvwLK4HjVyXHQ 5fQuaATR5NDSMiu3oPxhifVIt6H2lhUYpqQck9UwkAQL X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzvulmcTgFEj2BwH+JwsYvvhM3LWqG+B7Xl10sLW9oI2CbKPnAZHXSPbc2wIrxG/FmYehUFUvED4LmZGbJGbQo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3a17:: with SMTP id h23mr36333996lja.155.1558438072249; Tue, 21 May 2019 04:27:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <868svf6r05.fsf@phe.ftfl.ca> <201905111423.x4BEND1t058226@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Dima Pasechnik Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 12:27:40 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Core: Yes please, Code of Conduct committee: No Thanks. To: Gleb Popov Cc: Dima Pasechnik , current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Core Team Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 054298978B X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=EWuDhJwL; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dimpase@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dimpase@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.03 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.226,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.79)[ip: (-9.45), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.20), asn: 15169(-2.27), country: US(-0.06)]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 11:27:57 -0000 On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:47 AM Gleb Popov wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 2:28 PM Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 3:25 PM Julian H. Stacey wrote= : >> > >> > FreeBSD Core Team Secretary wrote: >> > > The FreeBSD Core Team is aware of recent controversial statements ma= de >> > > on social media by a FreeBSD developer. We, along with the Code of >> > > Conduct review committee, are investigating the matter and will deci= de >> > > what action to take. Both the Core Team and the FreeBSD Foundation >> > > would like to make it clear that views shared by individuals represe= nt >> > > neither the Project nor the Foundation. >> > >> > Core@ statements always welcome. >> > >> > But Code of Conduct committee merit no automatic credence since: >> > >> > Code of Conduct aims were cloned from an ultra feminist group of >> > non FreeBSD members, part paid by foundation, then shoved on >> > FreeBSD before discussion, by a voluble few in FreeBSD >> >> The present matter has nothing to do with feminism. > > > I don't see who states that. > >> Anyway, as someone >> who has been chased upon by a gang of youths screaming "zhidovskaya >> morda" ("Jewish snout") (Moscow, USSR, circa 1975, tough >> neighbourhood, and well, I have a Jewish grandmother) I absolutely do >> not appreciate the sort of thoughtless "freedom of speech" blah blah, >> as far as expressions of hate towards particular ethnic groups are . > > > Just wondering how old were you and "haters" were. In my childhood I was = laughed on because having too big ears, another girl - because she was fat,= and another guy - because his dad was an alcoholic. I'd argue that being b= ulled by "jewish snout" words instead of "fatty" puts you in some special p= osition amongst these people and me. > Yes, the phenomenom is bad in its nature, but it is also so common and in= significant, that IMO it doesn't serve all that fuss. My CV may be found online at the link after the signature - I am 56 y.o., and I did experience a fair share of state-amplified and condoned antisemitism back in USSR (apart from this incident). There was no state-condoned hate of people with big ears or excessive weight, and this does make quite some difference. As to "it is also so common" --- this is the 1st time in more than 27 years, since I left Moscow, that this topic interferes with my work. While it might be "so common" to you, it does not remove the hate from the hate speech it is. > >> Because they always incite violence. >> And yes, in USSR persons with ethnically Jewish parents had "Jew" >> written in their internal IDs (just like in Nazi Germany). Under this >> commonly accepted definition, saying "I hate Jews", as Mr. Kamp did on >> twitter, is full-blown racism, > > > I'd like to hear how it is "commonly accepted". I don't remember acceptin= g anything related. Are you trying to tell us that "5th paragraph", ethnicity, never was present in internal USSR passports? Of course it was, and on the basis of this I dare to say that my definition was commonly accepted in the USSR. And in present days Europe "jew" need not refer to a religious affiliation. (about 40% of Israeli citizens describe themselves as secular, by the way). > >> and Mr. Kamp ought to offer an apology >> for this - while he does not do it in >> http://phk.freebsd.dk/sagas/israel/ >> >> While in some jurisdictions hate speech is legally protected, it does >> not take away the hate in hate speech, and people generally don't like >> being hated. Hate originating from a freebsd.* domain is not good for >> the project. > > > freebsd.* domain can be registered by any individual, so hate originating= from such domains can't (well, shouldn't) affect the project in any way. > On the contrary, hate originating from *.freebsd.org, it does affect the = project. Luckily, this is not the case. > >> >> Let me point few things in the latter: >> >> * there is nothing like "the jewish religion" - there is a religion >> called Judaism, as Mr. Kamp ought to understand before >> making statements on these. Everyone can convert to Judaism, by the way. > > > Thanks for valuable information. It is completely off-topic and I doubt a= nyone here have any interest in this. As Mr. Kamp's blog post is being discussed here, I felt it might be appropriate to point out why it was an attempt to whitewash hate speech, rather than an explanation of an innocent misunderstanding. Regards, Dima > >> >> * Jews who are not Israeli citizens are about as responsible for >> policies of Israel as descendants of Vikings are responsible for >> policies of Scandinavian states of today. >> >> * I don't know anything about the legal status of the domain >> "freebsd.dk" --- nevertheless I don't think it does do much good to >> the reputation of FreeBSD to have these slightly illiterate writings >> there (although it might be bringing Mr.Kamp lucrative contracts from >> such pillars of democracy and free thought and speech as Saudi Arabia, >> Syria, and Iran :-)) >> >> Best, >> Dima >> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~coml0531/ >> >> >> >> >> > >> > The new CoC terms were hotly disputed. core@ failed to remove it >> > before many tuned out, despairing of the politics [& lack of core@ >> > backbone, probably themselves scared of being labeled anti-whatever]= , >> > >> > New CoC putch-ists took seats on CoC >> > >> > FreeBSD had a CoC before the putch with the new feminist etc CoC. >> > https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html >> > CoC could be replaced with the old one from SVN, or from >> > https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.freebsd.org/internal= /code-of-conduct.html >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Julian >> > -- >> > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aac= hen Kent >> > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in = EU. >> > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers= died. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.= org" >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g"