From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 29 19:31:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198A3159AB6B; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 19:31:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A9B46E3AA; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 19:31:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id LBzshjHmcGusjLBzuhmeZ0; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:31:33 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=fOdHIqSe c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=oexKYjalfGEA:10 a=iKhvJSA4AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=zoJ4fAklMHesfqNpwjwA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=odh9cflL3HIXMm4fY7Wr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3E2B3105; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x3TJV7Bg079805; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x3TJV73d079802; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201904291931.x3TJV73d079802@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Kris Moore , FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Goran_Meki=C4=87?= , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, Emmanuel Vadot Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base In-Reply-To: Message from "Rodney W. Grimes" of "Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:41:22 -0700." <201904291441.x3TEfMid072751@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:31:07 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNzDWI+zWN/ORISOq2YqftqFPdS4edEpOvpU680vr/0sjvuXehwqqYw0ygP6+3T7Viuz3PQ57eRy7ntso0zPA0JjpvAP5KpCIGDydVICtnz/bDuBZkz4 VbYnvaZwzvtOLW8kh/E7iOCeqvOdfrhDDuiTa+Y3tiipLD5wFQ7WpOMBu8d6YrXpgO+nSY1ixyrUmJWDQMUI4uT6jZd+oryQwP57gTjGBm4H7h/9mgQjhYAY SQ1w9uhrKaTp77U96HuJm588nPRfFMJaHYZx/ujMsDcLJ2shhxEYacWnLVCukybqG59i/LE/HnqNK70ShU64HBWLAE0+UKo/j0aEmoKiYmImmhTpfe1quzvx eZfp65MULKH35mmEeRiGdaCZKvJl34o+2v5R9iwIpNcP+v2lEFdlES8D3hdvr1zkghhJAd92ZKzqvEq+P0/RrZed+EmdU0ZCe8iDz1f+E+g4/cZQBThOnlBZ elX6kJv4tFCEr9Dbre3Bz9SgHVyRWEGx7ERsHS2PMdNGgjxvUJk20eu6jc8= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9A9B46E3AA X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[139.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.29)[ip: (-5.71), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-3.21), asn: 6327(-2.45), country: CA(-0.09)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 19:54:55 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 19:31:44 -0000 In message <201904291441.x3TEfMid072751@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. Grimes" writes: > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:09 AM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Correct, this is ZFS only. And it's something we're using specific to > > > FreeNAS / TrueOS, which is why I didn't originally mention it as apart of > > > our CFT. > > > > > > Then please it is "CFT: FreeNAS/TrueOS pkg base, ZFS only", > > > calling this FreeBSD pkg base when it is not was wrong, > > > and miss leading. > > > > > > > Sorry, I disagree. > Which is fine. > > > This pkg base is independent of the ZFS tool we're using > > to wrangle boot-environments. Hence why it wasn't mentioned in the CFT. > > These base packages work the same as existing in-tree pkg base on UFS, no > > difference. If anything are probably safer due to being able to update all > > of userland in single extract operation, so you don't have out of order > > extraction of libc or some such. > > You missed the major string change and focused on the edge, > No comment on calling iXsystems :stuff: FreeBSD instead of FreeNAS/TrueOS? > > That was the major point of my statement, your miss leading the user > community, you yourself said this would never be imported into FreeBSD > base, so I see no reason that it should be called "FreeBSD package Base", > as it is not, that is a different project. Taking the last comment on this thread to ask a question and maybe refocus a little. The discussion about granularity begs the question, why pkgbase in the first place? My impression was that it allowed people to select which components they wanted to either create a lean installation or mix and match base packages and ports (possibly with flavours to install in /usr rather than $LOCALBASE) such that maybe person A wanted a stock install while person B wanted to replace, picking a random example, BSD tar with GNU tar. Isn't that the real advantage of pkgbase? If OTOH it's binary updates V 2.0, what's the point? I'm a little rhetorical here but you get my point. If I want ipfw instead pf or ipfilter instead of the others I should have the freedom. Similarly if I want vim instead of vi I should have the choice to install vim as /usr/bin/vi. Otherwise all the effort to replace binary updates makes no sense. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.