From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 02:15:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2637FF2E; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 02:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [84.237.50.39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C98A942; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 02:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from regency.nsu.ru ([193.124.210.26]) by mx.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WVXBE-0006t6-LG; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:15:06 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by regency.nsu.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id s332EOH2059153; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 09:14:34 +0700 (NOVT) (envelope-from danfe@regency.nsu.ru) Received: (from danfe@localhost) by regency.nsu.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id s332EHg5059078; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 09:14:17 +0700 (NOVT) (envelope-from danfe) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 09:14:17 +0700 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: Leaving the Desktop Market Message-ID: <20140403021417.GA50938@regency.nsu.ru> References: <20140401094044.GX44074@e-new.0x20.net> <083e01cf4db9$f8f4e040$eadea0c0$@FreeBSD.org> <20140401174302.GU44074@e-new.0x20.net> <20140401195006.GA1368@tiny-r255948> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-KLMS-Rule-ID: 1 X-KLMS-Message-Action: clean X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Lua-Profiles: 59167 [Apr 03 2014] X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Version: 5.3.6 X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Envelope-From: danfe@regency.nsu.ru X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Rate: 0 X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Status: not_detected X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Method: none X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Moebius-Timestamps: 2856097, 2856303, 0 X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: scan successful X-KLMS-AntiVirus: Kaspersky Security 8.0 for Linux Mail Server 8.0.0.455, not checked X-KLMS-AntiVirus-Status: NotChecked: not checked, skipped X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:09:45 +0000 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Lars Engels , Matthias Apitz , Eitan Adler , hackers@freebsd.org, dteske@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , "current@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 02:15:16 -0000 On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 03:10:22PM -0700, Kevin Oberman wrote: > FreeBSD desktop since 3.3 (makes me a newbie!) I really dislike pulseaudio > and have managed to live without it. Firefox works fine without it. > Unfortunately they dropped OSS support a while go, so I now must use alsa, > but it works well and without the pain of dealing with pulseaudio, a > solution in search of a problem it I ever saw one. PA should just die, of course, just like that kid's other "products". OSS is so nice; it supports all those nifty features like per-application mixing and stuff, we have a very strong implementation of it (kudos to ariff@, let me remind us all: http://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT.html). Giving Firerox back its OSS support is my on TODO list, unfortunately I do not have any idea when (or if) I can look at it, but that would be a nice step in dealsificaion of our Ports Collection. OSS was, and should remain, the standard Unixish sound system API. > Audio output is pretty system dependent, but I had little problem getting > my audio to auto-switch to headphones when I plugged them in. The setup is > a bit ugly,but I only had to check the available PINs (ugly, ugly) and set > up stuff once. It just works. Not always, unfortunately. I also had a working pin override configuration in /boot/loader.conf, but after r236750 (major snd_hda driver rewrite) it stopped working. I've reported it and tried to get some support from mav@ but he never replied. Since then, I have to carry pre-r236750 version of snd_hda(4) to have working sound. > Power is an issue and I find the current defaults suck. Read mav's article > on the subject on the wiki. >From reading that article, I've only added hw.pci.do_power_nodriver="3" and hw.pci.do_power_resume="0" to /boot/loader.conf. More aggressive settings, like cx_lowest="C2", made my laptop very sluggish and unpleasant to operate; powerd(8) behaves sanely with no tuning, so I wouldn't say that our current defaults suck. The reason why we're behind on the "green" lane is because we generally do not pay much attention when it comes to power-saving during development of FreeBSD. (I'd like to be proven wrong.) ./danfe