From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 10:36:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1CE46C for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-freebsd8@klop.yi.org) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86EA48FC14 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:36:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.104.138]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TiNCc-0002NP-RD for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:36:43 +0100 Received: from [81.21.138.17] (helo=ronaldradial.versatec.local) by smtp.greenhost.nl with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiNCc-0007K1-Mk for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:36:42 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Will we get a RELEASE-9.1 for Christmas? References: <201212090318.UAA11257@lariat.net> <50C4A341.9070903@FreeBSD.org> <201212092031.NAA17017@lariat.net> <201212092215.PAA17770@lariat.net> <201212101735.KAA02736@lariat.net> <201212102352.QAA09737@lariat.net> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:36:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Ronald Klop" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.11 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Spam-Level: / X-Spam-Score: 0.8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Scan-Signature: 9b84bad32751a42de3aa9e7877f1ca86 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:36:47 -0000 On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 05:06:24 +0100, Kevin Oberman wrote: > On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 04:29 PM 12/10/2012, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >>> There's politics in every organisation. There are ego clashes in every >>> organisation. Sometimes you'll fit in, sometimes you won't. If you >>> feel there are issues, find people inside the community who you do get >>> along well with and talk with them about it. >>> >>> It sucks, yes. I'm one of those "shut up and code already" types and I >>> deal badly with politics. >> >> >> Me, too. That's why I have been contributing code quietly through others >> rather than putting myself out in the front lines. >> >> In any event -- back to the original topic -- there should indeed be >> better >> communications between the Release Engineering team and the community. >> The time it takes to post updates -- especially as it gets close to >> release >> time -- would be recovered many times over because folks like me >> wouldn't >> have any need to e-mail regarding status and projected schedules. ;-) > > I whole-heatedly agree... but I know a little about release > engineering for a large project, especially when the release team is > unpaid and has to honor commitments to $real_job. Release engineering > is very detail-oriented and unforgiving. This is not really > compatible with part-time work. > > The RE must be focused, first ans foremost, on getting a release out > the door as quickly as possible and not to have any serious problems > with that release. This makes it very had to pull bakc and make > announcements or even update posted schedules. That is made even worse > by hte desire to make such communication accurate or at least useful. > Since there is a LOT of guessing involved in pulling together a > release (how long will "Joe" take to fix this problem or why are there > half a dozen reports of a serious issue with the RC, when no one else > can reproduce it or even figure out what part of the system is causing > it), RE folks are usually reticent about trying to give out any > information since it will most likely be inaccurate. > > This is why I accept the line that it will be released when it is > ready. I really think it's about ready, but not even the head of the > 9.1 RE team KNOWS when it will be ready, even if the ISO builds are > started. "There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip." Then they can communicate they don't know a date. People accept hearing: 'because of unforeseen problems the expected date is unknown' in stead of '2012-10-29' (http://wiki.freebsd.org/Releng/9.1TODO). Not knowing something is not an excuse for not communicating. Ronald.