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[77.37.180.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-56e63c63d43sm2140468e87.91.2025.09.13.11.18.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 13 Sep 2025 11:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2025 21:18:20 +0300 From: Vadim Goncharov To: Norman Gray Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "Josef 'Jeff' Sipek" , Mark Liam Brown , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Git haas gone wild (Rust), freebsd-update Message-ID: <20250913211820.5cddcfc8@nuclight.lan> In-Reply-To: <8F188F5D-8F8B-48FF-B431-A841922AE54B@nxg.name> References: <00202803-6a1a-44ca-b110-9f1404d2c9bc@FreeBSD.org> <39D21672-603B-42A6-8820-F274FCC1191D@nxg.name> <20250909131346.1e1011ea@nuclight.lan> <202509091901.589J1RGX017686@critter.freebsd.dk> <8F188F5D-8F8B-48FF-B431-A841922AE54B@nxg.name> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.4) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[phk.freebsd.dk,josefsipek.net,gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::132:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cPKKz2548z3CXp On Wed, 10 Sep 2025 12:31:23 +0100 Norman Gray wrote: > Poul-Henning, hello. > > On 9 Sep 2025, at 20:01, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > Josef 'Jeff' Sipek writes: > > > >>> Or switch to Mercurial, https://www.mercurial-scm.org/ and declare git > >>> as obsolete > >> > >> I think that's an excellent idea, for both technical and social reasons! > > > > I seem to remember that we had a huge VCS shootout back in previous times > > and that hg basically lost because they had no way to truly "obliterate" > > a commit, if for instance laywers waved a credible cease&desist letter. > > I don't remember that issue, specifically, but I'd think that all DVCSs > which generate revision/commit IDs based on history would have puzzles here. > > I think that Mercurial lost out to Git mostly for network-effect reasons, > even though they appeared at almost exactly the same time. Git was > obviously heavily, and _noisily_, used for the Linux kernel, and after a > short time it became the DVCS that 'everyone' had heard of. That, of > course, is when the network effects take off. > > Myself, I think Git's interface is poor -- you need to know too much about > the system before you can do simple things confidently (corroborated by > teaching the thing to novices). Bluntly, I think the wrong one won! Sure. > I keep meaning to spend time looking at jj [1], which is a DVCS interface > which aims to be agnostic with respect to the storage system, but which > defaults to Git as its back end. The goal appears to be completely > compatible with Git repos (in the sense that the other people working on a > repo don't have to know or care that you're using jj), but pull in good > ideas from Mercurial, Sapling and Darcs. Unfortunatelly, that means that all fundamental (architectural) problems of Git are still present (no rename tracking, branches are not really branches, etc.) > Best wishes, > > Norman > > > [1] https://github.com/jj-vcs/jj > -- WBR, @nuclight