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Date:      Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:17:12 -0500 (CDT)
From:      Mike Silbersack <silby@silby.com>
To:        Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
Cc:        <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: SYN flood and IP spoofing
Message-ID:  <20011020140704.R63640-100000@achilles.silby.com>
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20011020101858.00d984e0@mail.sitanium.com>

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On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Fernando Gont wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I've read some explanations about the SYN flood DoS attack.
> I understand that when the attacker fills the listening queue of the
> attacked host with incomplete connections, the attacked host will not
> reply to any SYN it receives after that.

That's an old explanation; basically any OS released in the last few years
will throw old/random connections out of the queue when it fills up.

What you actually describe here is more "spoofing" than a syn flood; a
syn flood just involves blasting large numbers of syn packets at someone,
with no intent of actually spoofing a connection.

When Mitnick / anyone else did spoofing, it was through weaknesses in the
algorithm used to generate initial sequence numbers, not through simple
brute force.  (I'm assuming that's how Mitnick did it; I'm not aware that
he has revealed exactly how he did anything, and I doubt I'd trust him
even if he did explain.)

> However, I don't understand why it will not even reply with an RST
> when it receives a SYN-ACK from other machine.

In the general case of spoofing, you could ensure that a syn-ack does not
elicit a rst by spoofing the IP of a nonexistant host.  I've also read
that older tcp stacks could be caused to stop emitting packets by filling
their SYN queue; I'm not sure when that stopped applying.

These days, spoofing really isn't a concern; those looking to find a way
into a system wouldn't gain anything by spoofing and would instead look
for a buffer overflow to exploit.  Syn floods are alive and well, though.

Mike "Silby" Silbersack


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