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Date:      Mon, 17 May 1999 23:33:34 +0930 (CST)
From:      Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
To:        "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" <jeroen@vangelderen.org>
Cc:        Adam Shostack <adam@breakwater.homeport.org>, nr1@ihug.co.nz, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: secure backup
Message-ID:  <Pine.OSF.4.10.9905172327060.9205-100000@bragg>
In-Reply-To: <37401CDF.CEFA8B53@vangelderen.org>

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On Mon, 17 May 1999, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote:

> This feature has been available since PGP's early days. It uses PGP's
> default symmetric cipher.

Which is what? I don't have PGP handy here..

> > > If you assume PGP is available, why not just use it? Using bdes(1) in
> > > this setup sounds way more complicated (thus error-prone) to me.
> > 
> > There's no /need/ to use PGP in this step - clearly you could do anything you
> > like with the local keys, such as printing them out, or storing them as
> > plaintext (or keeping a constant key used for multiple backups).
> 
> I realize that. But using bdes(1) when you have PGP available is not a
> very good idea. Using bdes(1) actually never is a good idea because of
> it's crappy key handling (no hashing). bdes(1) allows you to shoot
> yourself in the foot without you realizing it.

Can you elaborate on this? Apart from the fact that bdes expects keys to be
given on the command line for non-interactive use (and not taken from a file,
which should be an easy hack to make), what's wrong with it?

> > If you use a random passphrase as in my suggestion then dictionary attacks are
> > worthless and you're only vulnerable to an (expensive)  brute force keyspace
> > search. Encrypting the already encrypted stream doesn't buy you anything I can
> > see, except the extra CPU time. But it's not a big deal.
> 
> Uhm, a dose of reality here: how many people will pick random
> passphrases of sufficient length? There is almost never reason to
> disable SSH encryption.

Yes, but the original problem related to a non-interactive tape backup. There
is no reason to have the encryption key as a human-memorable phrase; on the
contrary it's much better to make it a machine-generated random string of the
sufficient length.

Kris

-----
"That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been
rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into
someone's eye"
"Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_



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