From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 15:32:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A7D14F3E7C for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:32:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 419F28B727 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:31:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id z25so1802659qti.13 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 07:31:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BocDHvH8Q7C6/Ma0B+BxHvBkYNSEW5/vOogOZO84S4E=; b=Cc9YVgUaAAD4iSBHI25HItW5hH1+IAeSePkxJ/4kCYVyFG8pqfEJzSJsRTC7NXcOqO ryLIlWfNsjXepjimZVAaVxrZdjxP6lOps+YxdQfjwqvJjPmxcd3rSWu/1XmR6pN6jjhH xNj85145EZpnrfxFE6Gse9qTLta2w0iZvcwLuIp3tbtQaFMTuFVk3BX3PM7YHqUBbuUK w+H6doiqqYEKkRTiayOBlDgsV1HG6KSN6jDdwybxwf+lI0Itavq1Q93771LTVs773lcK +3ckB2Qh2w7//7jIRWCIWMc2JoJ8YNK1cwGD9kWHJTFG0sFaczshUdQmFMvOMXsHIGDv tuSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BocDHvH8Q7C6/Ma0B+BxHvBkYNSEW5/vOogOZO84S4E=; b=CnjZwYKGi+juorwWhjBQmU9Y8OTi3lAZa6bYcpTtz2s4kr/4ygTN4FpS/vh8axfYgS TD8QfiPPqFryY2IdVJWCuWyJDgBXSkSlEzqm13eIQKGDRcAFxvgV+DqxPM7rZtKle+bo hbZX95M+wMkTkRsz0LFwfUQnbiiYoY5PXDGtZ8gwO/Eodg+UnzWdiZkwcOxnUSbmz8hr QwnrG3X5YH/ewi8TLsvG+9QA2CRiZqfFESECQ5qjaiN/oj8qXQlSJwmmJgu8RtCOT5lI CiphGwrUtgvwdhiEHvIvq3Yd8KUz9JKN8n9m4+3MBdO4J4YqKhtcNZRIaw8JUdOwtR9A LZgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuY7vD5YJOzdB0Rd9IVArrGaE0wQe1MQ7IGKY1RODgLP5r/0qvM2 pnCbKCc2N/qL7gEX+XxxuozMthrWzJ8YswwLU+fgZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbxZrnT3XUh1gTQ0TjKgnyDUEnjDHxfb0WUiQEhkcBiddhxEfyYGN2HVac+rmjMVUQYLQQncLZq3bOhPyfkw2Q= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:35f8:: with SMTP id l53mr23607069qtb.15.1550590318562; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 07:31:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:31:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Daniel Ebdrup , Oleksandr Tymoshenko , Michael Gmelin , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Mark Linimon , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 419F28B727 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=Cc9YVgUa X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.54 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.832,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.70)[ip: (-8.83), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWELVE(0.00)[12]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:04:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:32:00 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 8:17 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > On 19 Feb 2019, at 09.15, Oleksandr Tymoshenko > wrote: > > > > > > Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>> On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > > >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > > >>> > > >>> IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > > >>> projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural > changes > > >>> that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > The port was created long ago to get newer graphcis, that port even > had very nice instructions on how to bypass the inbase kmod of the > same name that accsesed the same hardware. > Yes. Those in-base drivers don't work. Or rather don't work well. The kinda sorta work for some people, but there's a huge number of kludges and hacks the graphics guys have been doing to keep it going and it's too much. Those hacks, like needing to make xf86-video-ati-legacy, like hacking back in support for drm2 in mesa which has moved on to requiring, basically drm3, like looking at issues that arise from there being regressions in drm-kmod on some older hardware. It's too much. There's lots of duct-tape and bailing wire that you don't see that's necessary to keep it going. That's the real bottom line here, whether you want to accept this harsh reality or not: we simply do not have the resources to continue to support drm2. I deleted the rest of your rant. It's not worth answering point by point. Things aren't like you think they are, and if the many polite (and not so polite) explanations haven't sunk in, another round sure won't help. drm2 is dead. The decision was made months ago. The game is finally over. I'll be committing the removal later today. Warner