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Date:      Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:35:37 -0800
From:      Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
To:        Derek Flowers <djflow@portwwwbus.tc.cc.va.us>
Cc:        Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>, "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>, gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: after the release ... 
Message-ID:  <199803232236.OAA16235@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:52:03 EST." <Pine.BSF.3.96.980323154739.13675B-100000@portwwwbus.tc.cc.va.us> 

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> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > > Another consideration:  What if somebody modifies the O/S at their 
> > > > site.  MVS, for example, uses USERMODS which automatically get dumped 
> > > > when patches (PTF's or APARFIXES), or new product (FMID's) are applied.
 
> > > >  Would those of us maintaining FreeBSD sites be willing to follow a 
> > > > regimen as specified by the chosen patch philosophy?  On the other hand
 
> > > > would Sun's simpler approach work -- if the file's checksum (MD5?) 
> > > > doesn't match what the patch expects, abort?
> > > Well, that is the whole can of worms IMHO..
> > > I mean if you could guarantee that the system would be in a given state t
hen 
> > a 
> > > binary upgrade would be quite easy. The main problem IMHO would be making
 a 
> > > system which didn't mangle any custom stuff you've done to your machine..
> > 
> > That's right!  That's why a philosophy should be chosen and strictly 
> > adhered to.  Every sysadmin would need to follow this or he/she would 
> > have a mess, e.g. patches would not install if the state was not 
> > consistent with what was expected, and a reinstall would be required to 
> > get back to a know state.
> > 
> > > 
> > > I see making a 'patch' consist of a group of things to apply/change/sugge
st 
> > > which have pre/co-requisites, and if these are wrong(ie the checksum does
n't 
> > > match or the date is too new/old) then don't apply that group.. ie make e
ach 
> > > group atomic, so that if part of it fails, then back the whole group out.
> > 
> > That's where the USERMOD would be used.  The individual sysadmin would 
> > need to tell the system by using a packaged application to modify the 
> > system.  This way the system would know why any particular binary (or 
> > source module) would be inconsistent with expectations.  (The USERMOD 
> > process would allow modifications but make backup copies of "vendor" 
> > supplied binaries and sources in the process.)  If a USERMOD was 
> > detected, the backup copy would be used and the USERMOD would be 
> > verbosely deleted.  The sysadmin would need to re-apply their 
> > customization.
> > 
> > I'm not saying that we need to adopt IBM's approach.  We just need to 
> > consider _all_ of the ramifications and do it right.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
> > Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
> > UNIX Support                   OV/VM:  BCSC02(CSCHUBER)
> > ITSD                          BITNET:  CSCHUBER@BCSC02.BITNET
> > Government of BC            Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
> >                                        Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
> 
> The best way to go on custom changes is that the patch checks the md5
> checksum of the file it is going to replace and if it does not match,
> abort the installation.  It seems to me that someone doing custom work on 
> files should have the sources and the time to patch stuff manually.

... which is what Sun does.

> 
> A binary patch system is mainly for those who do not have the space or the
> time to install the sources, make the changes, recompile, and reinstall.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> Derek Flowers
> djflow@erols.com
> http://portwwwbus.tc.cc.va.us/~djflow


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
UNIX Support                   OV/VM:  BCSC02(CSCHUBER)
ITSD                          BITNET:  CSCHUBER@BCSC02.BITNET
Government of BC            Internet:  cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca
                                       Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca




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