From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 31 13:19:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CBD23FDB8; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:19:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: from fuz.su (fuz.su [IPv6:2001:41d0:8:e508::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "amnesiac", Issuer "amnesiac" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 488HrL156yz4bR1; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:19:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: from fuz.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuz.su (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00VDJbok026909 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:19:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: (from fuz@localhost) by fuz.su (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 00VDJaiq026908; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:19:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fuz) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:19:36 +0100 From: Robert Clausecker To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Paul Mather , freebsd-arm , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20200131131936.GA26194@fuz.su> References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 488HrL156yz4bR1 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fuz@fuz.su has no SPF policy when checking 2001:41d0:8:e508::1) smtp.mailfrom=fuz@fuz.su X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(1.40)[ipnet: 2001:41d0::/32(4.93), asn: 16276(2.07), country: FR(0.00)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[fuz.su]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.993,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:2001:41d0::/32, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:19:47 -0000 On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:29:07PM +0100, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:11:38 +0000 > "Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote: > > > -------- > > In message , Paul Mather writes: > > >On Dec 4, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Robert Clausecker wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 07:29:57AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > >>> In message , Ed Maste writes: > > >> > > >> Indeed. For example, on a Raspberry Pi 3B, it takes multiple days to > > >> build world as the build must be done single threaded due to a lack of > > >> RAM (building LLVM is the worst offender here). > > > > I plugged in a "WD SSD Passport" USB disk, it supports BIO_DELETE and > > performs so much better than a SD card, that swapon(8) is a good idea. > > > > I will also repeat again: We ignore the RPi4 at our peril. > > Show me the TRM. > Please show me a way to do this without looking at linux GPL driver. > > > RPi's are a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in particular > > for educators. > > In what way ? > Real answer only. For example, as a student with an interest in UNIX systems programming, I cannot justify buying a “real” ARM64 device on my budget for what I want to do with it. However, an RPi is quite affordable and thus pretty much the only way I can reasonably use FreeBSD on ARM64 (and I really want). > > We may not want to use them ourselves, but we should keep that > > part of the on-ramp open, in particular for young people. > > > > -- > > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > -- > Emmanuel Vadot Yours, Robert Clausecker -- () ascii ribbon campaign - for an 8-bit clean world /\ - against html email - against proprietary attachments