From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 24 15:53:54 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 279554F6; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 20pmail.ess.barracuda.com (20pmail.ess.barracuda.com [64.235.154.232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67699166A; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Opium.Pharm.Guru (Opium.Pharm.Guru [162.243.227.187]) by mx1404.ess.rzc.cudaops.com; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:41 +0000 X-BESS-ID: 1393257221-382908-14804-430630-1 X-BESS-VER: 2.4.2-r1402191942 X-BESS-BRTS-Status: 1 X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-Watermark: 1393862019.90071@ZUTjM8uNz/fPcC/Mvx7T/g X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-From: lucius.rizzo@lucius.xxx X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-0.1, required 3, autolearn=not spam, DKIM_SIGNED 0.10, DKIM_VALID -0.10, DKIM_VALID_AU -0.10, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED 0.00, RP_MATCHES_RCVD -0.00) X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-IP-Protocol: IPv4 X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder: Found to be clean X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-ID: 20A1240CA4.ADD49 X-OurDotGuru-Mailborder-Information: Please contact your admin for more information Received: from lucius.XxX (lucius.XxX [95.85.22.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by Opium.Pharm.Guru (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20A1240CA4; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:53:38 -0500 (EST) Authentication-Results: Opium.Pharm.Guru; dkim=pass reason="2048-bit key; unprotected key" header.d=lucius.xxx header.i=@lucius.xxx header.b=vVzKaoCQ; dkim-adsp=pass Received: from Lucius.XxX (lrizzo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lucius.XxX (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id s1OFrZ12032098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:36 GMT DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.0 lucius.XxX s1OFrZ12032098 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=lucius.xxx; s=default; t=1393257216; bh=OokvpmbMCS4Hqyl2yjVJsMSmM24wlElhJbNSeHGaBQ0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Mon,=2024=20Feb=202014=2015:53:34=20+0000|From:=20Lucius= 20Rizzo=20|To:=20Don=20Lewis=20|Cc:=20brunolauze@msn.com,=20swhetzel@gmail.com,=20and rnils@gmail.com,=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20freebsd-current@Free BSD.org|Subject:=20Re:=20libinit=20idea|References:=20<20140223182 232.GA25967@lucius.XxX>=0D=0A=20<201402240856.s1O8u82F073645@gw.ca tspoiler.org>|In-Reply-To:=20<201402240856.s1O8u82F073645@gw.catsp oiler.org>; b=vVzKaoCQN+Z5BBwAitGxeMYElHp1Dn4cjGNvuYInfKlB5Eb8OXk0t2hp4nad0gvMf verhrhkvKTjMVybZ3NeuM0kzgtYlDzNmCHv9k7uO3SpYSK+9bQ/JIZ62QuXNy+SyDV wXoE4eRgVB9GXn8xMYtCaJ3FN9ZuqnvF+AV9/X3jJ+S12s0GPkc2EPBD5yn1/NK/ER ZRi+KAW4uYlNKNQ1fplSlkFAZGvriHv1VaLqdqWUjv6fQLsL8Zypt1MX2vKoaeIAMW 2UR2zdpo90iEmq/J2JKWq4JoV3RYns704WWrbVapDQcMgvKeQ3ApG1gKtBLgefL3tZ 2exnEfHeEGo3g== Received: (from lrizzo@localhost) by Lucius.XxX (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) id s1OFrZvT032097; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: Lucius.XxX: lrizzo set sender to Lucius.Rizzo@Lucius.XxX using -f Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:34 +0000 From: Lucius Rizzo To: Don Lewis Subject: Re: libinit idea Message-ID: <20140224155334.GA31812@lucius.XxX> References: <20140223182232.GA25967@lucius.XxX> <201402240856.s1O8u82F073645@gw.catspoiler.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201402240856.s1O8u82F073645@gw.catspoiler.org> X-Organization: T.gT Consulting - http://t.gt X-Homepage: http://www.Say.Si User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.22 (2013-10-16) X-PWhois-Status: No originator identified Cc: brunolauze@msn.com, swhetzel@gmail.com, andrnils@gmail.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:53:54 -0000 * Don Lewis [2014-02-24 00:56]: > On 23 Feb, Lucius Rizzo wrote: > > * Andreas Nilsson [2014-02-23 09:33]: > >> Imho, the replacement to init and rc-scripts I sometimes think about > >> would be to import SMF from opensolaris/illumos. There one can at > >> least get the commands run and config used without looking at the > >> source code. > > > > I like SMF from Solaris 11 onwards and even SmartOS. However, I have > > found to like systemd and use via systemctl on Arch far nicer than any > > other rc scripts to date. > > > > Anyone care to share their thoughts on the pros and cons of something > > like systemd the way Arch does? > > I've got a Fedora server here that has systemd and I've come to dislike > it. It seems to be one of those "Do not open. No user serviceable > parts inside." sorts of things. I had an entirely different experience - albeit on Arch. I had to use systemd via systemctl for pretty much everything to build on the machine. I use btrfs + linux-ck on Arch with systemd. In order to get stuff to work, I had a pretty detailed learning experience with systemd when I helped on the sendmail AUR port for Arch including writing/enabling scripts to work with journald and systemd. Naturally, I'm somewhat surprised to see the the author's attitude towards licensing and non-Linux support. Its rare to come across devs who are zealous to such a degree. However, there seems to be an agreement at least in part to modernize or optimize the boot-up/rc env in FreeBSD. I don't know for most of you but for me, while this is interesting...I almost never really reboot that often for me to actually see a real advantage of a 3 sec boot-up difference by throwing away what we have and migrating to something else. Which is why we should also consider more than just boot-up times -- for me having a newer more intelligent way to manage rc environment might bear more interest than a few second boot difference that I only see once in a blue moon. Though, now I am also at a point where I know commands in - Debian/CentOS/Arch, BSD (FreeBSD/NetBSD) and Solaris 10/11/SmartOS (all with different ways of doing thing). What's annoying is that each of these OS/flavors have nuances in use of their rc scripts and while ^now^ it doesn't bother me at all, I imagine it may for a newb. In most cases, everything works. But when it doesn't, its annoying to remember svcadmin vs systemctl vs /etc/init.d vs service vs /etc/rc.d/ along with all the other commands just to check the logs... -- | _o _ |_)o_ _ _ |_|_|(_||_|_> | \|/_/_(_) - Lucius.Tel -------------------------------------- ++ New members are urgently needed in the Society for Prevention of ++ ++ Cruelty to Yourself. Apply within. ++