From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:32:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C631553FBD for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82E1070C76 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mi4un-1gVhef3Ooj-00e3xE; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:31:56 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:31:56 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190329033156.4b17c18b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qWuOXVHq2zKBIXV3quYEvSe2HfSGpyGTyNbRPeXV5V7Nh5QQqCA /JNqSEfv6O405FGPNG9RcRjvIvDzQHxgwwa/5Dfo1LRNXXTYnw3f8906vvb6sFB40NX5Hzf A5AaejirKUHYaXJ4+hfCNJeQMOZwmQttAnmg5eyxrx6A3y3UKLEEwL9h8M6V3Y9QCW3qlMM G93LXZHuB04iexjjsgGMA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:W+kKlVmjG/I=:IQ0lYmHmqMmPrCIXQ9i48g IirzqYXMRyLwvaJJPKCeYgAtspvUEvtHIcYBkbK6RbrfiBhxTeTgD4H4OlIvIWwyNY+Mf4lZv i2SsyrO3udPR4CJKEjt0RFMSX6kptswVXVKTEq/txP/krnsPoUmYE8p4LrbjHpeV4Lsm7uZUy Mhg19em5AhHaKorxN6XSrQAXF19iDzpzf52OwYZF6KQ6sRl6qG/rJw93UtK8trvgxA7ouDcFj 9PTrYtI4Y3uTTmbOywbrkmvG2tF06daca5/N3yVI/BvEIc0Wz1wOlbyNmHQ2uXutSpkeW/EH9 1JRqY794rSxt26ePUSpE3hbFMFv4zorC8Kfxb2qejznDSx+N1Prb9v+z82Ki3lrR/DizaCkcj zna7QgebscBgmExqdONW6dMnkm0uagcLmInQRNoMrpKo/Zav50hIEm6TDHZ7u9weg/RUw1l4o iyE43997nEJxbP11aDGcIfcPvXhMPIUomq1q4dUgmzhMs4n/bgsOjx9ouqqvSJqHEHgXmhjRR ML/MRdVNRJsEbDtuogWX5H+oq1bLz9uJeZt4AY+PVbVPZwJP1VMffAxipQ7+HbwuWsd+3tzVJ Dbhj+OrAqxx6rpux75ev+MEE7pWkBoFYTKK8NpOXYkjfLcX2gvgR+067uS0usNn8MZWbTjPb2 ne9RFc7de/9iCXWzLDWHUVm2SBa/Tdpqhdgyjhcp+UI94ZlJewIKBBRZlriKgtGpZtp/b3mnr IB+PEqM9ZzLSi9NpqfIrsi30rezZ2Mcdp5aUZHOQBhQ216kIbREj9zWABtM= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 82E1070C76 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.92 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.76)[0.757,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.64)[0.637,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.963,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ip: (0.57), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:01 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:25:45 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > collection? Because it is the system's default interactive shell. > I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we need > to still rely on that? There are users who prefer the C shell - as an interactive shell, always keep in mind! - over bash. Others use zsh (which I'd even call "the most professional shell", even though bash users might feel offended), and others prefer the ksh. All those advanced shells are available through the ports collection. > I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full as > "bash". None of those cases is intended. The Bourne shell, sh (on FreeBSD, technically: the Almquist shell, ash) is the system's default scripting shell, and used interactively only in an emergency, and even then it often just starts another shell. System services heavily rely on the standardized behaviour it implements. Due to that kind of use, its interactive features are next to non-existent, and nobody cares, because it doesn't matter. The extended features of bash, often called bashisms, are usually non-POSIX extensions that sh does not have. Scripts that use them will need to require bash as a runtime dependency. This is why csh does not feel like sh - it's a totally different thing. The C shell implements a specific subset and "lookalikes" from the C programming language and is primarily intended for interactive use. It's scripting use is considered harmful and should not be attempted by any halfway sane being. ;-) However, some users prefer the way this shell works interactively over how bash does it, and the way it can be configured and accomodated to specific completition scenarios. > To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" and > "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. I have not yet understood this differentiation, because the system's csh _is_ a tcsh. Maybe this just installs some additional symlink? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...