Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 08:43:05 +0100 From: David Chisnall <theraven@freebsd.org> To: "lain." <lain@fair.moe> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system) Message-ID: <8CAA2984-2168-46ED-8F66-3CE65729D67D@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <3wqj34x43r6pyah6fxrzbya7soz3ywe7bdk4poihaeh3hm2d6a@vwk3nh4jxl2r> References: <3wqj34x43r6pyah6fxrzbya7soz3ywe7bdk4poihaeh3hm2d6a@vwk3nh4jxl2r>
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--Apple-Mail-BBEBAD78-359E-472A-8202-1182ACB0F90B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4 Sep 2024, at 07:35, lain. <lain@fair.moe> wrote: >=20 > About C developers being in decline, I actually disagree with that. > I have seen younger generations getting interested in C the more they > get overwhelmed by the amount of new languages to chose from. This does not reflect my experience in hiring, the data I=E2=80=99ve seen fr= om a major tech company, or the trends in open source contributions. It is far easier to hire C++ developers than C developers. This shift starte= d a bit after C++11 was released and has continued.=20 This trend is reflected in open source. Here is the OpenHub graph: https://openhub.net/languages/compare?utf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontributor= s&language_name%255B%255D=3Dc&language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&language_name%25= 5B%255D=3D-1&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&commi= t=3DUpdate This shows the number of open source contributors making contributions in C o= r C++ over the past decade. You=E2=80=99ll see that there are now more than t= hree times as many C++ developers as C contributing to open source projects (= I=E2=80=99m ignoring the last few months where it looks as if C programmers a= ll gave up and went home, I presume there=E2=80=99s an error in the underlyi= ng data). For Rust, the situation is more complicated. Hiring good Rust developers is h= arder than hiring C developers (there are no Rust developers with ten years e= xperience because the language isn=E2=80=99t that old, and even though a lot= of people are learning it, there=E2=80=99s a lot of inertia). This changes a= lot when you look at the open source ecosystem because the fact that Rust i= s new and came from the open-source world skews the people who learn it towa= rds open source and towards wanting to practice the language that they=E2=80= =99ve learned. Here=E2=80=99s the same graph with Rust added: https://openhub.net/languages/compare?utf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontributor= s&language_name%255B%255D=3Dc&language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&language_name%25= 5B%255D=3Drust&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&commit=3DUpdate Note that there are still fewer Rust developers than C, but they=E2=80=99re i= ncreasing and they tend to be more enthusiastic contributors. David= --Apple-Mail-BBEBAD78-359E-472A-8202-1182ACB0F90B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On 4= Sep 2024, at 07:35, lain. <lain@fair.moe> wrote:</div><div dir=3D"ltr= "><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>About C developers being in decline, I actually disa= gree with that.</span><br><span>I have seen younger generations getting inte= rested in C the more they</span><br><span>get overwhelmed by the amount of n= ew languages to chose from.</span></div></blockquote><br><div>This does not r= eflect my experience in hiring, the data I=E2=80=99ve seen from a major tech= company, or the trends in open source contributions.</div><div><br></div><d= iv>It is far easier to hire C++ developers than C developers. This shift sta= rted a bit after C++11 was released and has continued. </div><div><br><= /div><div>This trend is reflected in open source. Here is the OpenHub graph:= </div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://openhub.net/languages/compare?u= tf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontributors&language_name%255B%255D=3Dc&a= mp;language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&langua= ge_name%255B%255D=3D-1&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&commit=3DUpdate"= >https://openhub.net/languages/compare?utf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontri= butors&language_name%255B%255D=3Dc&language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&= ;language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&language_= name%255B%255D=3D-1&commit=3DUpdate</a></div><div><br></div><div>This sh= ows the number of open source contributors making contributions in C or C++ o= ver the past decade. You=E2=80=99ll see that there are now more than three t= imes as many C++ developers as C contributing to open source projects (I=E2=80= =99m ignoring the last few months where it looks as if C programmers all gav= e up and went home, I presume there=E2=80=99s an error in the underlying dat= a).</div><div><br></div><div>For Rust, the situation is more complicated. Hi= ring good Rust developers is harder than hiring C developers (there are no R= ust developers with ten years experience because the language isn=E2=80=99t t= hat old, and even though a lot of people are learning it, there=E2=80=99s a l= ot of inertia). This changes a lot when you look at the open source ecosyste= m because the fact that Rust is new and came from the open-source world skew= s the people who learn it towards open source and towards wanting to practic= e the language that they=E2=80=99ve learned. Here=E2=80=99s the same graph w= ith Rust added:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://openhub.net/lang= uages/compare?utf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontributors&language_name%= 255B%255D=3Dc&language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&language_name%255B%255D=3D= rust&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&commit=3DUpdate">https://openhub.n= et/languages/compare?utf8=3D%E2%9C%93&measure=3Dcontributors&languag= e_name%255B%255D=3Dc&language_name%255B%255D=3Dcpp&language_name%255= B%255D=3Drust&language_name%255B%255D=3D-1&commit=3DUpdate</a></div>= <div><br></div><div>Note that there are still fewer Rust developers than C, b= ut they=E2=80=99re increasing and they tend to be more enthusiastic contribu= tors.</div><div><br></div><div>David</div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-BBEBAD78-359E-472A-8202-1182ACB0F90B--
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