From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 14 19:10:04 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F003567 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:10:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [66.251.72.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F62A2FC6 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:10:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sas1.nber.org (sas1.nber.org [66.251.72.185]) by mail2.nber.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r9EIpvJt064580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:51:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:51:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Bruce Cran Subject: Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure In-Reply-To: <525C2FBC.4080808@cran.org.uk> Message-ID: References: <525A6831.5070402@gmail.com> <20131014133953.58f74659@gumby.homeunix.com> <525C1D1C.9050708@gmail.com> <525C2554.7080203@pchotshots.com> <525C2FBC.4080808@cran.org.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.03 (LRH 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.39/RELEASE, bases: 20131014 #11242732, check: 20131014 clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:39:11 +0000 Cc: David Demelier , Adam Vande More , Brad Mettee , FreeBSD Questions , CeDeROM X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:10:04 -0000 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Bruce Cran wrote: > On 10/14/2013 6:16 PM, CeDeROM wrote: >> Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage? > > Unlike other journaling filesystems, UFS+J only protects the metadata, not > the data itself - i.e. I think it ensures you won't have to run a manual > fsck, but just like plain old UFS files may be truncated as the journal is > replayed. This discussion skirts the critical issue - are files that are not open for writing endangered? No description of the uses of journaling can be considered informative if it doesn't address that explicitly. As a naive user I have always assumed that once closed, a file was invulnerable to improper shutdowns, but this discussion shakes that belief. I expect the answer may be different for SSD and spinning disks. dan feenberg