From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 22 07:11:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775916A417 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:11:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (lefty.soaustin.net [66.135.55.46]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516FE13C455 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:11:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 2872C8C09A; Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:11:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:11:19 -0600 To: Dominic Fandrey Message-ID: <20080122071119.GA25774@soaustin.net> References: <478556AD.6090400@bsdforen.de> <4794534C.1040306@bsdforen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4794534C.1040306@bsdforen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:26:02 +0000 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's problems as seen by the BSDForen.de community X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:11:19 -0000 On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 09:09:48AM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: > Herewith I apologize for starting this thread. It caused a lot of useless > noise on your lists and while our members have spent months intensively > discussing the topic, they are now very reluctant about acquiring the > information necessary to find the source of their problems. Unfortunately this doesn't solve anyone's problems :-( If we haven't opened up the lines of communication about how to get the specific information that is needed to debug complex problems, then the complex problems will remain unsolved. One of the subthreads that was spawned was actually quite productive, and has led to some ideas about how some of more expert users can help to work with less expert users on issues like this. (We can conclude that submitting them to the PR database is only effective if it happens to catch the attention of a committer on the way in). IMHO that subthread alone made the whole thread worthwhile -- despite the rest of the noise. I hope we can build on the postive momentum and interest from several new contributors. mcl