From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 10 18:06:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0379016A6ED; Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc2-cdif2-0-0-cust107.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.104.168.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C9C46698; Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:21:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from ceri by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Fp1XQ-0003h2-1o; Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:21:56 +0100 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:21:55 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20060610112155.GF23618@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Tom Rhodes , John Baldwin , grog@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org References: <200606070333.k573XmRc067920@repoman.freebsd.org> <200606071051.47070.jhb@freebsd.org> <20060608004803.GK81573@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200606090853.48604.jhb@freebsd.org> <20060609203802.7cbdf70f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060609203802.7cbdf70f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: grog@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD (was: cvs commit: src Makefile README) X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:06:02 -0000 --0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 08:38:02PM -0400, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:53:47 -0400 > John Baldwin wrote: >=20 > > On Wednesday 07 June 2006 20:48, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > > On Wednesday, 7 June 2006 at 10:51:45 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 06 June 2006 23:33, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > >> trhodes 2006-06-07 03:33:48 UTC > > > >> > > > >> FreeBSD src repository > > > >> > > > >> Modified files: > > > >> . Makefile README > > > >> Log: > > > >> Simply running ``make world'' will bomb unless you dig up the > > > >> undocumented HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD variable and set it. Note it > > > >> here so the blow up will not really be a surprise to people who > > > >> read. > > > > > > > > I thought the obfuscation was intentional as very few people should > > > > be doing a 'make world' without a custom DESTDIR these days. > > >=20 > > > Then there's no reason not to document it. > > >=20 > > > Warning: FORCE_ROOT_INSTALL can render your system unusable by > > > overwriting existing configuration files. Do not use it unless you > > > are completely aware of the consequences. > > >=20 > > > And yes, a descriptive name like FORCE_ROOT_INSTALL, not > > > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. > >=20 > > Describing it would subvert the intended obfuscation. > >=20 > > > > Certainly people new to FreeBSD shouldn't be doing it; only those > > > > with the command hardwired into their brains. We've had > > > > buildworld/installworld since 2.2.5 (or 2.2.6) I think as I've only > > > > had to do a 'make world' once to go from 2.2.2 to 2.2.6. :) > > >=20 > > > FWIW, that's when the rot set in IMO. One of the nice things about > > > FreeBSD *used* to be that to upgrade the system you just needed to do > > > "make world". Now you have a lot more work. > > >=20 > > > The only justification for this regression is that it's really > > > difficult to get everything right. But that's a bug, not a feature. > >=20 > > No, the justification is that 'make world' completely ignores the kerne= l and=20 > > only handles userland, and an operating system is both a kernel and a= =20 > > userland and that users should update those together. If you as a deve= loper=20 > > want to use make world you can either run the two commands back to back= or=20 > > you can put I_REALLY_KNOW_WHAT_IM_DOING_AND_WANT_TO_HOSE_MY_MACHINE in= =20 > > make.conf or something. However, developers wanting to do this are in = the=20 > > _VAST_ minority and I'd much rather cater to the other 99% of the world. >=20 > Hmmm. Perhaps a warning like this and then kill the > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD target and related docs? I don't like that. Our users should now be in the habit of not running "make world", so I don't really see the win. They have needed to do this since July 2004 (revisions 1.302 and 1.303), when a core hat was used to achieve the situation prior to Tom's commit (see revision 1.304). I don't see why this needs to change again, or how doing so serves the user base. I suggest that the archives are consulted for the original discussion re: this particular colour of bikeshed before we waste any more time. Ceri --=20 That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere --0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEiqtTocfcwTS3JF8RAmdzAJ4vl15d+k0hQLIe0bi3Sso7kSyfewCgwUOu y+p/1vbSw7lJzwPAvBp2siQ= =wXcU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf--