From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 8 05:28:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65ED4106566B for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 05:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from svein-listmail@stillbilde.net) Received: from mail.stillbilde.net (d80.iso100.no [81.175.61.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040778FC0A for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 05:28:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [192.168.12.4]) (Authenticated sender: svein-listmail) by mail.stillbilde.net (Familien Skogens mail) with ESMTPSA id A114522 for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 06:28:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D75BE6F.3000100@stillbilde.net> Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 06:28:15 +0100 From: "Svein Skogen (Listmail account)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC8F3B06B547BD601BC0B0BF1" Subject: Re: HAL must die! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 05:28:23 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC8F3B06B547BD601BC0B0BF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 08.03.2011 04:36, Ivan Voras wrote: > On 7 March 2011 19:44, Lars Eighner wrote:= >> On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Ivan Voras wrote: >> >>> On 06/03/2011 19:56, Lars Eighner wrote: >>>> >>>> Using the -C switch with portupgrade, I am managing to turn WITH_HAL= off >>>> in >>>> ports that I install or upgrade. Is there a way to make this a globa= l >>>> default? >>>> >>>> Is there a (convenient) way to list ports that might pull in HAL wit= hout >>>> having a configuration switch? >>> >>> Um, why exactly are so many people against HAL? >> >> It breaks my mouse and keyboard. I assume it would break other stuff = if I >> had esoteric devices. >=20 >> with HAL =3D nothing works >> without HAL =3D everything works >=20 > Interesting, I had 0 problems with HAL ever since it was made. But he does raise a valid problem (if more than zero users, etc). "We" (I include fellow FreeBSD users, but also OSX and Linux users) do lack a decent cross-platform device manager stack, with uniform device name enumeration. DevFS (and its peers in Linux) does give us a start, but not enough to build a system on. However, I suspect that getting this to be truly cross-platform would take "a known name" in BSD-land, OpenIndiana/Illumos and Cupertino agreeing with RMS that "making this worth would be a nice summer-of-code project". Perhaps "AutoDevFS" mounted on /autodev (names being picked from empty air with only coffee-fumes). Such a framework would allow "drivers" to attach using pipes, and thus allow (for instance) usb-upses to have python (or lua, or >> It's the only cross-platform thing available for non-Linux systems wh= ich >>> handles device enumeration, hotplugs, etc. >>> >> >> I'm not running a cross-platform. I'm running FreeBSD. There were na= tive >> FreeBSD solutions to hotplugging the devices I use before HAL. >=20 > Good luck with running your FreeBSD with FreeBSD-only applications :) I'm less of an OS cleric. I run windows, freebsd, openindiana, irix (my old indy still works), and knowswhat. Not because I like being confused, but because I chose tools for the task at hand, not tasks from what my (least) favourite os can('t) do. I still want something that works, and if it brings a decent standard into the loop, it will make me sleep a little better. Getting something to REPLACE HAL with, something that actually works, would provide me with more rest. //Svein --=20 --------+-------------------+------------------------------- /"\ |Svein Skogen | svein@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg =C3=98stli 9 | PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X |2020 Skedsmokorset | svein@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | svein@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listmail@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +-------------------+------------------------------- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |svein@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle: SS16503-RIPE --------+-------------------+------------------------------- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ------------------------------------------------------------ Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------enigC8F3B06B547BD601BC0B0BF1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk11vnMACgkQODUnwSLUlKSSOwCdGs3H4OBTjfDkPNYqYBq5BJCx hKkAn1BnF+NCcUn3FzKcPeI+0+f7JNOy =qalY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC8F3B06B547BD601BC0B0BF1--