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Date:      Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:11:27 -0700
From:      Johnson David <djohnson@acuson.com>
To:        James Michael DuPont <mdupont777@yahoo.com>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Stallman stalls again
Message-ID:  <200206271111.27952.djohnson@acuson.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020627093141.48702.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>
References:  <20020627093141.48702.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

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On Thursday 27 June 2002 02:31 am, James Michael DuPont wrote:

> I am currently involved in a similar situation.
> My introspector project extracts the ASTS out of the compiler into XML,
> I am getting hostile mails from the gcc/fsf group.

The basic problem here (I think) is that "extracting" anything out of the 
compiler, other than what it normally outputs, will create a derivative work. 
It is another form of translation, which is covered by copyright law. You 
have the permission to do so under the GPL, if the resulting XML extraction 
is also under the GPL.

GNU is a funny organization. Among their various beliefs is that utilizations 
of loopholes in the GPL are not permitted. They may feel (my guess) that your 
XML extraction is a "loophole". You cannot write a non-GPL program that 
directly extracts the ASTS out of the compiler. But your XML extraction can 
be used by a non-GPL program for the same thing. Thus, they may feel that 
your project (again, my guess) is an end run, or can be used as an end run, 
around the GPL, by non-GPL programs.

> It seems that there are not any real rules on this,
> only FUD and opinions from the side of the people trying to stop all
> "Dangerous" patches to the gcc.

I don't think your project violates the GPL at all. I am confident that 
copyright law and the wording of the GPL allows this. But that won't stop the 
FSF from suing to prove otherwise. That latter point is all important. The 
FSF doesn't need to be right, they just need to be able to outlast you in a 
court of law.

Your only defense, as I see it, is to convince enough people associated with 
GNU that your project is not in violation of the GPL. In order to do this, 
you must argue from the perspective of the GNU Philosophy, and not logic, 
law, rights or anything else.

> I will be meeting with rms about this soon and need to know his
> arguments from the past. He has sent me almost identical mails as well,
> I think that I will have to fight over this.

Having been in discussions with RMS before, I know that once he has made up 
his mind on an issue, he will never change it no matter what. If he gets it 
into his head that your project can be used as an end run around the GPL, you 
will have lost.

One of RMS's overriding concerns is the GNU Project itself. He actually 
opposes the Uniform Driver Interface because it would benefit Windows users 
more than GNU users. So keep that in mind.

cheers,

David

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