From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Feb 19 15:14:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBC923D3E7 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:14:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com (mail-qk1-f180.google.com [209.85.222.180]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48N1V05k7Cz4NT8 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:14:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from will@firepipe.net) Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id b7so406839qkl.7 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:14:32 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Dux8792v5MlupckKkBAdkycUUI6yVT2nKYMV77pumXc=; b=MypG4+GF0+Os3U4YGPSE6/Sdx3AuKZt/xeFuHwlalD63EpbRwHQiPOFjvscbUIc+WT d8/JHTy8O4VUAevHZiPzywqLM6SBrF2kILeKYAbp7eyaFDsRgGfNx+GwCBoVpNRP549Z Epnx9txyPzJRO360BHqTnDnEpNDl4ahVlGPAejf/chA3lFbns/ncyWo63IbLPbA2hmac umKKIiiflSzzJLe4P7h17XuNUE57BpkzaTW3KCZ5OS99RaJxHVqr9mX+bTPyxDTFrHWq 4rGM8pF4oPa0or06P4C6O36tLUe1Jf/K9O79hTWVfHVEDaE+U364n6rBL5pYhCOgt+F1 lIog== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXO2IiUd7ciGM7uVK1SmVFm2PZNv0R8KdCpeYO5btkPvnPkZZGQ FebBBZesuzKQyrPZF8qR18n7eSaT1nUXjTv5Z2hlk3sKrZI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzF3/TLubjvzMvnprgfDe4GdUmxuTvDtCOeiBqFUiYW1oWrQVs0Q1AdFZhhvXnTc1thRkIycKGHAbZJb3GwIX0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:159b:: with SMTP id d27mr23185887qkk.426.1582125270865; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:14:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Will Andrews Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:14:20 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Return of config files to ^/etc To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48N1V05k7Cz4NT8 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of will@firepipe.net has no SPF policy when checking 209.85.222.180) smtp.mailfrom=will@firepipe.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-1.61)[ip: (-3.33), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.00), asn: 15169(-1.68), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[180.222.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[will@freebsd.org,will@firepipe.net]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[180.222.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[will@freebsd.org,will@firepipe.net]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:14:34 -0000 On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 8:02 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > Right. The files don't need to move from the original /etc to do this, and > never did need to move. so this is not an argument against moving them back. > This was just the background. Since neither of these features strictly depends on where these files live > in the tree, this advantage doesn't go away. > But not new people, who in most cases are used to the standard that is followed by everything else (including everything installed by ports): config files with the code that reads it. That's why ^/etc is idiosyncratic. And people are used to it. They don't know where everything has moved and > waste a lot of time finding stuff moved to a new, arbitrary location. > This seems to be the primary argument made for ^/etc: "that's the way it's always been done, so it must be right." I can think of a lot of things that are done a certain way primarily because of that argument. I'm sure I'm not alone. The new locations are actually less "arbitrary" (to use your word) than ^/etc, since the config files are co-located with the code that reads them. This is nice for source management: there's no need to look in or manage other directories for related files like the default configuration. It is a *source* tree, after all. Here's a question: why are config files special? Why don't we store all man pages in ^/share/man/manX, instead of colocating them with their source files? -- wca