From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 2 17:40:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF39C1065676 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E5D8FC17 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:40:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so18190491obb.13 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=5gLTnC0fWtxDHr9cU/6VfTjSPuarIcST/f9xiP5SV70=; b=oOdG04rYXkjUIvDVwqrD6FyVcGWE2G7rCpkNZyY2p5tMxRjTQ7jw1lmPYqZWQO8Aza ZhwQS+62OtB5wY9BsACYxXoxdZSuHoAZ4TfVTsoFraqOaWduZZD6wT4qH/UPJG7MuBNo BDn+rkdlnVDjVx4JEl8X/LM8ROF/Njld9CecRzv7Eh3w1yKXMnP9TC740P9qDcKpW0ka JJrjo0B/cwasijzCgqVMTh/MRV3AV8kE7xI4Vsk8PUBXSuGv8oKT4dxZhDgnKoeXOVnc /Vxp/WosGZNhg/MH1QfafJRrefpMq5AbzU3k0awMfimUNjt1dbv5rd7FaAcAeokS3/Nx nbEg== Received: by 10.182.164.40 with SMTP id yn8mr38525397obb.40.1343929242752; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 10:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a9sm6518625obp.14.2012.08.02.10.40.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 10:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <501AAEF2.8060202@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:40:40 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1DE87ACB-10FD-4B23-850E-B0C4F564AB8F@bsdimp.com> References: <612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com> <501A0258.4010101@FreeBSD.org> <501AAEF2.8060202@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRc0xKOU+FvC4vt8Qa5cBsTT7r6PZNSUNwV17Cw1JH2N1iwBlrnZbqHT/wzwDDBrA1P/O2 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, David Chisnall Subject: Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:40:45 -0000 On Aug 2, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > Those all sound like nice steps forward, thank you for pointing them > out. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong in this = area. > What would be nice I think would be if these steps were formalized, = and > shared more openly. Having things on the wiki is nice, but reporting > things in detail on the mailing lists puts it in the archives for = future > reference, as well as making it more broadly available to start with. One thing to remember about the IETF. There's many vendors that devote = significant resources to the IETF. While I was at Cisco, for example, I = know that we provided audio and video bridges to IEFT meetings to = facilitate remote attendance at the meetings. Cisco dedicated several = engineers to ensure that the audio and video quality remained good = during the meetings and were able to use facilities cisco normally used = for things like WebEx and MeetingPlace. With a global presence and = infrastructure, they were able to pull it off. I'm not aware of similar = resources within the project. We don't have any such benefactor in the project, so we have to rely on = the kindness of strangers. AsiaBSDcon live streams most of its talks, = but uses a free service that changes from year to year and is quite good = for talks, but can't do meetings at all. Other meeting things do = meetings OK, but the video or audio quality sucks unless you have high = end gear for the source. Mapping out what hardware, software and service = combinations work would be very beneficial. I suspect this will vary = based on geographic location (stuff that works good in the US won't work = in EU or Asia and vice versa). These issues are what makes it hit or = miss. While it is easy to skype one or two people into a meeting, that = scales poorly to more than two. Plus if things are going poorly, the = attempt to broadcast the meeting can derail or eat into the time = available significantly. I guess this is a long way to say that while one to one, and one to many = problems have relatively easy solutions, many to many like we need still = remains fussy and difficult. Warner