Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:40:40 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, David Chisnall <theraven@theravensnest.org> Subject: Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..] Message-ID: <1DE87ACB-10FD-4B23-850E-B0C4F564AB8F@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <501AAEF2.8060202@FreeBSD.org> References: <CACqU3MUh1XPScRHNc-ivOYLmbG0_UqpwBNWeoPA84uSOESH_bg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-FndCHxpTfc%2Bb5zgiX2NheaQN1LcJXBRubef4_GAYCy_pb2g@mail.gmail.com> <CACqU3MWo=ieaduuwZDF6SfzUUS5y1qzP5e2Ddg6Aphnz_O2PJw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-FndCDpD3rnQFwiOSGofP9cPCxC5Zo%2BPLfxALY8pnE=2HQMA@mail.gmail.com> <CACqU3MW2JEtDK0Ngdf_Br6D%2BVvdU1B9LmN0fm0F9=bG0f2iW4Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-VmomhHxG8t9Sw7de%2BzUnbz0O5GSY4ifpHFtCb9JS_zS0rBA@mail.gmail.com> <CACqU3MUKGcy8rNz0FcZLVat49BmRLD3hVKX%2BOXxkzwRDugKtAw@mail.gmail.com> <612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com> <CACqU3MU-WyNFf5UZGx15m_HWBx_6W272qkfqHHJ8G7v%2BJCK2Sw@mail.gmail.com> <FAE07410-CA99-4061-856F-799DB9D225BE@bsdimp.com> <501A0258.4010101@FreeBSD.org> <CA622462-DB69-40E4-9E1D-A4D83AEB12F8@theravensnest.org> <501AAEF2.8060202@FreeBSD.org>
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On Aug 2, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > Those all sound like nice steps forward, thank you for pointing them > out. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong in this = area. > What would be nice I think would be if these steps were formalized, = and > shared more openly. Having things on the wiki is nice, but reporting > things in detail on the mailing lists puts it in the archives for = future > reference, as well as making it more broadly available to start with. One thing to remember about the IETF. There's many vendors that devote = significant resources to the IETF. While I was at Cisco, for example, I = know that we provided audio and video bridges to IEFT meetings to = facilitate remote attendance at the meetings. Cisco dedicated several = engineers to ensure that the audio and video quality remained good = during the meetings and were able to use facilities cisco normally used = for things like WebEx and MeetingPlace. With a global presence and = infrastructure, they were able to pull it off. I'm not aware of similar = resources within the project. We don't have any such benefactor in the project, so we have to rely on = the kindness of strangers. AsiaBSDcon live streams most of its talks, = but uses a free service that changes from year to year and is quite good = for talks, but can't do meetings at all. Other meeting things do = meetings OK, but the video or audio quality sucks unless you have high = end gear for the source. Mapping out what hardware, software and service = combinations work would be very beneficial. I suspect this will vary = based on geographic location (stuff that works good in the US won't work = in EU or Asia and vice versa). These issues are what makes it hit or = miss. While it is easy to skype one or two people into a meeting, that = scales poorly to more than two. Plus if things are going poorly, the = attempt to broadcast the meeting can derail or eat into the time = available significantly. I guess this is a long way to say that while one to one, and one to many = problems have relatively easy solutions, many to many like we need still = remains fussy and difficult. Warner
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