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Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:10:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190829114057.GZ71821@kib.kiev.ua> <412537DD-D98F-4B92-85F5-CB93CF33F281@FreeBSD.org> <20190829144228.GA71821@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 09:09:53 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP 20190401-ci_policy: CI policy To: Marcelo Araujo Cc: Kristof Provost , Konstantin Belousov , FreeBSD Hackers , Li-Wen Hsu , fcp@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46K5d95JFZz3Jy6 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=z7elCk/3; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::731) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.91)[ip: (-9.35), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.85), asn: 15169(-2.32), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:10:06 -0000 On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:09 AM Marcelo Araujo wrote: > Em qui, 29 de ago de 2019 =C3=A0s 23:03, Kristof Provost > escreveu: > > > On 29 Aug 2019, at 16:42, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 02:03:00PM +0200, Kristof Provost wrote: > > >> There are, somewhat regularly, commits which break functionality, or > > >> at > > >> the very least tests. > > >> The main objective of this policy proposal is to try to improve > > >> overall > > >> code quality by encouraging and empowering all committers to > > >> investigate > > >> and fix test failures. > > > But this policy does not encourage, if anything. > > > It gives a free ticket to revert, discouraging committers. > > > > > To provide a counterpoint here: my personal frustration right now is > > that I=E2=80=99ve spent a good bit of time adding tests for pf and fixi= ng bugs > > for it, only to see the tests having to be disabled because of unrelate= d > > (to pf) changes in the network stack. > > > > Either through lack of visibility, or lack of time, or because people > > assume pf tests failures must by definition be the responsibility of th= e > > pf maintainer, these failures have not been investigated by anyone othe= r > > than me, and I lack the time and subject matter expertise to fix them. > > > > I=E2=80=99m desperately afraid that if/when these bugs do get fixed we= =E2=80=99re > > going to discover that other things have broken in the mean time, and > > the tests are still going to fail, for different reasons. > > > > These are bugs. They=E2=80=99re the best case scenario for bug reports = even, > > because they come with a reproduction case built-in, and yet they=E2=80= =99re > > still not getting fixed. This too is discouraging. > > > > I=E2=80=99m open to alternative proposals for how to address that probl= em, but > > I don=E2=80=99t think that =E2=80=9Ccontinue on as we always have=E2=80= =9D is the correct > > > > OK, because of PF that is sort of deprecated on FreeBSD and it need some > new rules to make it workable, everybody else need to abdicate to some ne= w > rules. Yes, right you are!!!! > Let's take every opportunity to clarify community norms and turn it into a federal case. That's productive. Warner