From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 12 08:18:34 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBC8106566B for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:18:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0375D8FC1A for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:18:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn35 with SMTP id 35so5472229iwn.13 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:18:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=j0N00PMs8nW4ECmEmqbJmMn61/JntFV++NxHPNfktH0=; b=bhcIXscizMfbZemMguHD6npwclqyUL9mGwcVp8ak9af+Y4aOu/DJ8TWYVCM0e6PKKk BJHk+6/ji7TzUh4yZPquf3pG6+r73JkSdyO2fVa16a8PEsxP1kJgSny77wE3VCGH8Epz tzXzt50tWHMz47JK+MyE2UVNXUcYFoXQM4Sgw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=x133pjKXNx7k4EdFX0eRvxlvP8+VNQ63HnDkXqNFwlsXtALNjt2SeMFqlmiJZWvLQK 24lulwROa799GHlWHT68LLxm99t1RdsXk5awZLoxbYlfqbD7NAcBWSZFpACyel4D52hb SIOFvQKUZPKxOgCpPcpAxFGZ3UuD0YQxUCcbQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.14.201 with SMTP id h9mr13371714iba.135.1278922712896; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.182.74 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:18:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100711144605.00006291@unknown> References: <20100710061608.000026db@unknown> <20100711144605.00006291@unknown> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:18:32 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Bruce Cran Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal for new `post-install userland configuration utility' X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:18:34 -0000 On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Bruce Cran wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:18:46 -0700 > Garrett Cooper wrote: > >> Yes, that's the idea that I had in mind for sysinstall, because it >> does a lot more than it needs to today. > > Has anyone done a survey to see if users think it does too much, or > that they only use X % of its functionality? I think we need to be > careful before ripping features out. Debian and Slackware both seem to > have installers with the same feature set as sysinstall, so we need to > watch out in case we put less experienced users off using FreeBSD by > ending up with a very basic system they'll have trouble getting started > with. Not really (I would argue that sysinstall has a lot more features, and complexity). The typical install flow formula in many Linux distros I've run into is: [Setup Keyboard Layout ->] [Check Media ->] Welcome -> Setup disks (Partition / configure LVM) -> Setup Bootloader -> Setup Timezone -> Setup Users (password for root, username and password for unprivileged, but superuser capable) [-> Setup Install Media, i.e. network, CD, etc] [-> Configure Packages to install] -> Install This was the case for Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE, RH, RHEL, and Ubuntu (of course the step varies, but not by much). Don't remember about Slackware (it's been ages since I tried using it...). IIRC OpenSolaris follows the above formula rather closely (but with ZFS, not LVM). I think that OpenBSD follows a similar formula. Can't speak for NetBSD. Most of the above distros have fuzzy, happy utilities for configuring stuff in the distro default DE/WM by choice, or some wrapper script infrastructure for doing things. So I don't think that introducing a simple utility would be too much of a departure from other OSes, but I do think that it would be a departure from folks who are used to FreeBSD's sysinstall, or are migrating from older versions of FreeBSD to newer ones in an install. So... it's ultimately a thought that I was tossing out because Randi suggested it, but if there isn't enough pull or interest in the utility, I'll concentrate my efforts elsewhere. Thanks, -Garrett