From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 29 20:12:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BFE159C4C7 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmaloney@ixsystems.com) Received: from mail-yw1-xc44.google.com (mail-yw1-xc44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FB6171341 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmaloney@ixsystems.com) Received: by mail-yw1-xc44.google.com with SMTP id i66so4245868ywe.5 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:12:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=6MjsstOZD7psHVBmtlDM1lEe80ANjy/dSzbHny/7BdI=; b=k9foXJI/JSbZgDBP4fCHwVrMBUYq2kvPzTJYVw3Nrjse5oywo8ebK8buMKJIkz5OBm Xs9LGrM+EbX3Sy7b2OJbDT+H+2M4iR1OYRp3j5OZvhAcq6f9WuxrqqPPAY2gKHwsmhGR vsq7NB+JUsqDBH/cH+XPUg45yNdtyRUyNugAn2eDQP2BswakIiaZQiXRZjieIQP418hq +grTgUQzoFUm1hgN9wOhBtw7djqss1NloSPbjYsed7TnFFkWzCwphcMzL9ei2xzZa/Y+ GZoac09S/itq8iVI1JXBqrwfvf9Fp0jd3Bhj1GGl041sLcBaCka4c894oN/cu7TysJuC 5+1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=6MjsstOZD7psHVBmtlDM1lEe80ANjy/dSzbHny/7BdI=; b=HAz8d0WUZrjtELQd//sTOOdDgDIEwDhiUJV9Dg5GKFFqwIZ8XSOiqyTQX1YXNd+c2r Xe7oNu1+cZXbrU0PxYn+xSuNNUzgP3zAu5OxDuCCVvoEbpSSkobppXiz/AGqTOgguQRk 7UhiW+fmdljmw+RGZdvRr26Wcai/HEYKhRu4Sk6rdZKgybXrXgrCxwokDUPG9oGMEEDf 8e6ZFukXHXuphvpNgtIxbFhJubmdvpP0nBWuvHOt7NuhxltPdwYc5cMYbJVvNO7ryBO4 TBbHy3AmIeluiQGpZpfpQdlQKzjvLblYP9qF7FqRpujOreB5D6oBfAerdzPo7He7iNpc wYMA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV1b2FvMqQZdenQJW80RD1PFJLxvj+B5Bo6Jhrgsw1dvSpfb71y KW1WFcjVRNp2cSVDNshrjJ6TlhYWLoJQng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxXTtel0TlWm5Rw3TF3NV29b2J9wd5tI5zBCRkqB2n1zoArV3CzMNIGd6dXvgKhLNXQhc7qWQ== X-Received: by 2002:a81:6608:: with SMTP id a8mr22566339ywc.229.1556568766490; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.238.1.100] ([12.189.233.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j83sm10920165ywj.93.2019.04.29.13.12.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base From: Joe Maloney In-Reply-To: <201904291931.x3TJV73d079802@slippy.cwsent.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:12:43 -0400 Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Kris Moore , FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, =?utf-8?Q?Goran_Meki=C4=87?= , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, Emmanuel Vadot Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6EB65F49-47CD-48B2-8C58-BF387D8C7A58@ixsystems.com> References: <201904291931.x3TJV73d079802@slippy.cwsent.com> To: Cy Schubert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1FB6171341 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=k9foXJI/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=ixsystems.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jmaloney@ixsystems.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jmaloney@ixsystems.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT3.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.933,0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ixsystems.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.88)[ip: (1.06), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.16), asn: 15169(-2.24), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:40:04 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:12:49 -0000 With CFT version you chose to build, and package individual components = such as sendmail with a port option. That does entirely solve the = problem of being able to reinstall sendmail after the fact without a = rebuild of the userland (base) port but perhaps base flavors could solve = that problem assuming flavors could extend beyond python. Joe Maloney Quality Engineering Manager / iXsystems Enterprise Storage & Servers Driven By Open Source > On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:31 PM, Cy Schubert = wrote: >=20 > In message <201904291441.x3TEfMid072751@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W.=20= > Grimes" > writes: >>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:09 AM Rodney W. Grimes < >>> freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Correct, this is ZFS only. And it's something we're using specific = to >>>> FreeNAS / TrueOS, which is why I didn't originally mention it as = apart of >>>> our CFT. >>>>=20 >>>> Then please it is "CFT: FreeNAS/TrueOS pkg base, ZFS only", >>>> calling this FreeBSD pkg base when it is not was wrong, >>>> and miss leading. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sorry, I disagree. >> Which is fine. >>=20 >>> This pkg base is independent of the ZFS tool we're using >>> to wrangle boot-environments. Hence why it wasn't mentioned in the = CFT. >>> These base packages work the same as existing in-tree pkg base on = UFS, no >>> difference. If anything are probably safer due to being able to = update all >>> of userland in single extract operation, so you don't have out of = order >>> extraction of libc or some such. >>=20 >> You missed the major string change and focused on the edge, >> No comment on calling iXsystems :stuff: FreeBSD instead of = FreeNAS/TrueOS? >>=20 >> That was the major point of my statement, your miss leading the user >> community, you yourself said this would never be imported into = FreeBSD >> base, so I see no reason that it should be called "FreeBSD package = Base", >> as it is not, that is a different project. >=20 > Taking the last comment on this thread to ask a question and maybe=20 > refocus a little. >=20 > The discussion about granularity begs the question, why pkgbase in the=20= > first place? My impression was that it allowed people to select which=20= > components they wanted to either create a lean installation or mix and=20= > match base packages and ports (possibly with flavours to install in=20 > /usr rather than $LOCALBASE) such that maybe person A wanted a stock=20= > install while person B wanted to replace, picking a random example, = BSD=20 > tar with GNU tar. Isn't that the real advantage of pkgbase? >=20 > If OTOH it's binary updates V 2.0, what's the point? I'm a little=20 > rhetorical here but you get my point. If I want ipfw instead pf or=20 > ipfilter instead of the others I should have the freedom. Similarly if=20= > I want vim instead of vi I should have the choice to install vim as=20 > /usr/bin/vi. Otherwise all the effort to replace binary updates makes=20= > no sense. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org >=20 > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"