Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:26:06 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek <tim@ppp6475.on.bellglobal.com> To: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no> Cc: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newest Pentium bug (fatal) Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.971111202632.683B-100000@localhost> In-Reply-To: <199711112339.AAA23291@bitbox.follo.net>
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On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> > There are also things that are completely beyond the realm of scientific
> > understanding as well, that cannot be 'explained away'. For example, a
> > recent "scientific" study on 'prayer' was given. There were two groups
[...]
>
> This is interesting. I'd need more information about the experiment
> before I could say anything about it - what immediately pop up as
> things that would need to be checked is
It is interesting, but I'm not sure how much more. I recall also
an experiment which showed that plants, when prayed for
individually by name, grew better than plants prayed for in a
generic manner. Even casting aside any potential statistical
holes in these studies, I don't view them as basis for faith in
any god.
It is possible to debate for perpetuity wether an outside deity
is necessary as a basis for our current universe. I think this
accomplishes nothing since it will only end-up defining god as
that which science cannot explain.
I imagine that there are enough people who have enough empirical
evidence to make a reasonable argument for the existance of a
spirt world. Sufficiently convincing, this evidence could surely
be used to build a predictive model.
But this should not form a basis for faith in God. Faith in God
in not derived from selfish ambition to use God for your own
profit. (This is not to say that an empirically demonstrated
spirit world cannot be used for personal "profit", and scientific
methods may quite well be used to maximize this profit).
Faith in God does not come from the use of scientific principles,
or even the belief in the existance of some other-worldly forces.
Faith in God is a choice one makes. This choice, while possibly
supported by any of the above, is made on the basis of one's own
experience. I can rationalize and try to explain my faith, but I
don't believe I can prove it in such a way that it would transfer
itself to any other person.
So, let us be clear here; there is nothing to be won in this
debate. Even should Nate or someone manage to convince someone
that there must exist spirits and gods and demons and gargoyles,
nothing has yet been accomplished. Having been convinced that
there is more this world than meets the eye, what shall we do?
Will we emulate those who already believe in gods and demons?
Are those people in some way fundamentally better-off than we
are? If so, then we should copy them right now regardless of
what we believe. If not, then what would copying them once we
believe accomplish?
If you should wish to use empirical evidence demonstrating a
spirit world for your purposes of profit (which I don't suggest
would leave you "fundamentally better-off"), then I can only
propose that you look at people who already do this, and ask if
that is really what you want to do.
--
tIM...HOEk
OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names
hoping that the resultant code will run faster.
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