From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 12:56:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A99D337C7C for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:56:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cknipe@savage.za.org) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mSrd5nnhz3gXW for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:56:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cknipe@savage.za.org) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com with SMTP id n123so10749693ybf.11 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:56:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QDlHyjPTTYKRnn/7QBSiV9KU+PXmtQQgiVknS29OjPE=; b=Z+obFJwqIXsEfvYQ+TWLqvIN9HTqHcLGLDm3h+JjgBL5hUi1jZcLt79VSxhwSXQgA8 h9C+3BiVN8MaWJeetfO1z2D1/iX2VgcwzvwBF2ULnPgFc59+c5PF75yymEvinew6gCUH 9JMJVVUtMiJiM6PNXvRIlPOoPJzU1yaSRta6pcqAjewUMJBgDnDruEo/26ZYnknC5acP CLKCeXBw10uoK4kzGqndGuIcB9LbDkFOc++hJJjQb5ueSj8XcaL7SusLszV2uR+74ma6 WsOsWEavxaTUuSh0Cdd7g1asOeFQPp4feJ3zPeOM/9U3KoRd9UZKJBTHWTGXJRN1ljxY 8pIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QDlHyjPTTYKRnn/7QBSiV9KU+PXmtQQgiVknS29OjPE=; b=Q1W0LhbOdfEFcTK09Qwo4wsHkaTnSIFZBVByYkzRGYnJNgam6J1SpbuTTIh0DeiTNm mVEOXu4An5YadubCNpRohVjTjphUaviiSh/S/FfjwMFhah3I11bDJptmha9erVy5c0f0 p8vbT9KhsGCANCVtbRFieObNNPWYY5g8ZXzfdCSHYwfpXfAx+XqD2u6aGVW997k9Ormy Nh5blO+VusbdgKirr4cN+/yVEQCznwGrf1wArdVzgVG0+dVo+QyjEEWzLylXUodxHHRZ wlaN1XhrfeL6a+wqMSEZsu6yXhoDyH7/fEO/Q3Own4V65uwZyhp2Wzni8J9UzbwFSBm8 3BeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321FIgMkFfGZ8lr3EjR3jteWi7yumKV7O6ftsQgnXoXrffqPzom VXbNw8XzOG9ap77Z8NBfACH0iUv7qUSW/1A49djtPQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx/dPeaXiNphTvLgRQhCizD2ZMPUyeyRShpFA86FL52mefZQ4sYtiVKIuP51X6QHMdxnkvDXrhV9PX+2/pvjGU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bcc2:: with SMTP id l2mr3629804ybm.154.1592312208513; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:56:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Chris Knipe Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:56:37 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mSrd5nnhz3gXW X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=Z+obFJwq; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cknipe@savage.za.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cknipe@savage.za.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.010]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[savage.za.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.46)[-0.456]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[savage@savage.za.org,cknipe@savage.za.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[savage@savage.za.org,cknipe@savage.za.org] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:56:52 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:50 PM Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:28 AM Chris Knipe wrote: > >> https://imgur.com/a/eW01Zc2 Your own message - a very good example of >> what's wrong with it. Straight from gmail. In outlook (for example, >> which >> has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, as even -more- >> scrolling would be required. >> > > Reading the original message on gmail was no problem for me nor unreadable > in any way (you must have your gmail configured in some f'ed up way!). > Never in my life, changed a setting in gmail - so that's how it is displayed by default. Don't blame me, blame gmail. I never changed anything. > > >> We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH sessions run >> at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) - we're way past >> that as well... Whilst I now have to scroll up and down to read your >> message, I could have seen your entire message in one screen without the >> need to scroll up and down. >> > > Maybe if you have *perfect* eyesight you could see it on one screen! (Not > everyone is 18 and has vision better than most fighter pilots). And you > might be wrong about the row/col count of some/most SSH (X based terminal > apps) for example on a 1920x1080 monitor (27") my 50 year old eyes need > 37x135 (not that much larger than 25x80) when using a xfce terminal, the > default font size is unreadable even with 1.75 diopter reading glasses > (which are not needed if I use the above resolution). Before you go > crazy about how everything can be done via a GUI I have one question: are > you a programmer or a sysadmin? (if not then you have no idea of how useful > a command line is vs. the GUI). > Well if we have to get personal, I am 40 years old, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis affecting my eyesight, with glasses. My monitors run at their default resolution of 1920x1080 and I have zero issues seeing anything. Maybe you should go for an eye test, and get some glasses? PS: I do sysadmin, networking (my full time profession), as well as programming. Been doing so for 20+ years actually. > Entry level from my local computer superstore (microcenter) is 25" and I > am sure I would have an even lower resolution there. So no we are *NOT* > way past 25x80, you are just being dense and an elitist to say otherwise. > And in typical FreeBSD mailing list etiquette, now we get offended and start slandering people. Nice discussion, I'm done now. Have better things to do than enter into personal rants and arguments. PS: You are the *EXCEPTION*, not the *NORM*. -- Regards, Chris Knipe