From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jan 25 15:26:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6793737B427 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from caddis.yogotech.com (caddis.yogotech.com [206.127.123.130]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21931; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:26:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by caddis.yogotech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0PNQct46601; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:26:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15441.59822.481182.325298@caddis.yogotech.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:26:38 -0700 To: Daniel Eischen Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , Dan Eischen , k Macy , Peter Wemm , Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: KSE question In-Reply-To: References: <15441.58187.656443.659186@caddis.yogotech.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > Interesting. I think we only care about FPU state > > > > > during signal deliver and preemptions though, and in > > > > > that case, the kernel can just pass us the "FPU used" > > > > > flag and/or "FPU format" along with the interrupted > > > > > context. > > > > > > > > There's lots of talk about using this 'FPU used' flag, but at least my > > > > read of things from the long discussion before was that it may not be > > > > possible to implement this on the x86 architectures we currently > > > > support. > > > > > > > > It sounds like a great idea, *IF* if can be done. > > > > > > The kernel knows if the FPU has been used and it also knows > > > the format (x87 vs SSE/XMM). As long as the FPU context > > > comes from the kernel, then it can also tell us whether > > > it is valid and it's format. > > > > Right, but this has a huge effect on the userlands threads scheduler, > > since multiple threads can be active during one time-slice, so the > > userland scheduler will have no way of knowing which thread used the > > FPU. (At least, not w/out making a system call, defeating most of the > > advantages of having userland threads...) > > I think it only matters when threads are preempted or trap. With KSE's, won't threads be pre-empted? (I guess they won't unless you get an upcall from the kernel, so the flag could get set.) > As long as the kernel can tell the difference between > preempted/trapped (kernel) threads, then it can copy > or not copy the FPU state out to the per-thread mailbox > and flag the FPU state accordingly. Good point. > Can't we treat normal system calls as we would library routines (if > you call a function then shouldn't the compiler assume the FPU state > could be trashed and be forced to save and restore FPU state that it > needs?). This is much less effecient, since the kernel normally doesn't touch the FPU state. (FPU operations in the kernel are illegal currently.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message