From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 6 10:47:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966F337B416 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:47:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from caddis.yogotech.com (caddis.yogotech.com [206.127.123.130]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00290; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:46:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by caddis.yogotech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g26Ikrw35564; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:46:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15494.25629.4763.761844@caddis.yogotech.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:46:53 -0700 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Nate Williams , Brett Glass , Kenneth Culver , "Steve B." , "Eugene L. Vorokov" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C vs C++ In-Reply-To: <3C8661EB.934CC478@mindspring.com> References: <20020305164151.T5854-100000@alpha.yumyumyum.org> <3C8529DA.FA8ABCE@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020306073237.00cd0b00@localhost> <3C8659BC.C2FD35ED@mindspring.com> <15494.23436.196349.224108@caddis.yogotech.com> <3C8661EB.934CC478@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I can write C/C++/Java as good or better than most, and Java allows me > > to get more done in a shorter amount of time than any other language. > > And, not only that, my resulting programs are more reliable and bugfree > > since I can spend more time worrying about the program, and not the > > language itself. > > Your "resulting programs" are subjective to you. True. > If you were the person tasked with doing the project, and I needed > these attributes on the resulting code (likely), then Java would > probably be the language of choice. But that's subjective to you. Agreed, although my experience are similar to others who have done both C, C++, and Java programs I've spoken with. > > I'm not saying that other languages don't also exhibit these > > characteristics, but C++ is one of those languages that constantly gets > > in the way. Rather than spending time solving the problem, I spend more > > time worrying about the pitfalls of the language... > > Again, that's subjective to you. I've been doing C++ for > about 20 years now I find that *really* hard to believe, since C++ hasn't been out for that long. :) :) :) (I've got Stroustrup's book next to me, and it wasn't even started until '85, and I don't know when the first C++ compiler became publically available.) > prefer to code in C still, for most > things, but was able to finish ~22,000 lines of code in a > period of four weeks # of lines of code doesn't mean much to me. I can generate lots of lines of code too, but it doesn't mean they are necessary. (The term I heard to describe over-engineering a solution was 'gold-plating'). I'm not saying you've done that, but it happens. > This is incredibly ironic to me, as the C++ code in > question was a reimplementation of the Java APIs necessary > for support of one of Sun's API designs for Java in C++, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You redid JavaMail. I thought JavaMail was poor, and you did it in 4 weeks. I did all of what I needed it to do in an afternoon, so *nah-nah-nah*. :P > The other advantage is that the C++ code ran in a known, > deterministic amount of memory on an embedded system; > Java VM's, even Kaffe, seem to want to take at least 8M > of memory. Kaffe wasn't a good implementation of the VM. However, I will state that the minimum size was quite large. (No worse than most other interpreted languages). However, it didn't have to get any bigger. I had a server that server 400 real-time clients running in under 24MB on a Sparc/RISC platform. > The same project also served to show that a Cathedral > builds significantly better code than a Bazaar. You're not going to get *any* argument from me on that one (I agree with you), but I'm *NOT* going to get sucked into that discussion. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message