From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Feb 1 06:59:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5F3244602; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from mail.antonovs.family (mail.antonovs.family [100.25.240.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 488lLz6XTXz4D2H; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33C6138B9F; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3keZ1dQ7MbPl; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7213138B9A; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.antonovs.family C7213138B9A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=antonovs.family; s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77; t=1580540354; bh=L4+eC2pZS+kJRdp3MsarzkqT6M4/LW6Zl4u5jhxBREY=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=fx/7EHolbdPxm6si0yRDQHVju0HzDjrisLLRYpqgq02lU+SPOtVxAS79AEcnbaHdc gLvyFMUA5tPIF2oUMQKSPb+mAjGGzD/HyAas/AJGdzVOFcVUJNCLYagAWTAXvqb8v9 nyXPlRueEWeNrNc7JSfHg2p611fwRtVzCBgyVwlHl3E2Zq/LFny8Q4vLkn1UNl8ZEK EI2nrQi9wdkdlMubCUA3gL7ptNFXkbs9dEcRoDq2kA7txhZzkZACu2fmD4aBFh48pZ YJlwL9iFjCthFdR/TAoe4AVLyW6bmi33eQRT45aueYCeqwHcTfy4dx8ayoGomVsmqN 7rcvAyp2scsNg== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antonovs.family Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id jIoz8Ay2Hd0r; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 06:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [74.85.93.130]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D1D4138B8D; Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 12:37:08 -0800 From: Ihor Antonov To: Justin Hibbits Cc: Bob Bishop , freebsd-arm , Paul Mather , Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-arch , Emmanuel Vadot , Robert Clausecker Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20200131203708.e5q3rij53jzr4req@sea-ll-10936> References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> <84926.1580333803@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200130112932.46ccb9fe@titan.knownspace> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200130112932.46ccb9fe@titan.knownspace> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 488lLz6XTXz4D2H X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=antonovs.family header.s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77 header.b=fx/7EHol; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=antonovs.family; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ihor@antonovs.family designates 100.25.240.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ihor@antonovs.family X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[antonovs.family:s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-3.16)[ip: (-8.70), ipnet: 100.24.0.0/13(-4.02), asn: 14618(-3.04), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[antonovs.family:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[antonovs.family,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:100.24.0.0/13, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2020 06:59:24 -0000 On 2020-01-30 11:29, Justin Hibbits wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:07:37 +0000 > Bob Bishop wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > On 29 Jan 2020, at 21:36, Poul-Henning Kamp > > > wrote: > > > > > > -------- > > > In message > > > <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net>, > > > Emmanuel Vadot writes: > > >>> RPi's are a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in > > >>> particular for educators. > > >> > > >> In what way ? > > >> Real answer only. > > > > > > 1. Schools can get them through their usual suppliers of educational > > > material, with a pretty decent discount, and with educational > > > courses and materials, pretty much ready to go. > > > > > > 2. Most "maker-space" atuned electronics pushers carry them. > > > > > > 3. Big electronics pushers carry them. > > > > > > In re 1-3: No customs processing of shipment involved. > > > > > > 4. Cost, including shipping is below "trivial" threshold in most > > > organizations. > > > > RPi zero in particular is cheap enough to treat as a component. > > This is probably the most compelling argument on this thread for > finding someone with somewhat deep pockets to get involved. Broadcom > won't listen to educators, hackers, or hobbyists, they'll only listen to > large piles of money. Someone (company) needs to be in a position to > tell Broadcom "Hey, we want to use the RPi Zero (or the SoC in it) in > our product, running FreeBSD. Help us out." Otherwise, they ignore us > at no peril to them. > > Saying "We ignore it at our peril" makes great rhetoric, but it's not > at all actionable. Without usable documentation, there's no way anyone > would do the work needed. A good alternative to RPi are Pine64 devices. Same price level, open hardware, specs (apart from broadcom wifi), and the company is very interested in growing BSD support https://www.pine64.org/ ---- Ihor Antonov