From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 16 13:42:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from threespace.com (server44.aitcom.net [208.234.0.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1ED937B425 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com (ip68-11-176-217.br.no.cox.net [68.11.176.217]) by threespace.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19453 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:46:42 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316152302.01b33d00@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:41:30 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: Free BSD In-Reply-To: <3C93B514.9AB4BB7E@mindspring.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020315181331.01b26160@threespace.com> <20020314204235.L152-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <15505.28725.937368.158235@guru.mired.org> <20020314204235.L152-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020315181331.01b26160@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020315190230.01b2a4f8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020316100234.01b21638@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:11 PM 3/16/2002, Terry Lambert wrote: >I think Jef is arguing for good standards, more than poor >standards, but primarily for standards over none. Perhaps. But his argument loses merit if he chooses to completely dismiss the standards that currently exist. The masses simply don't move that quickly. >It's a matter of perspective: "one man's mead is another >man's poison". Exactly. And Jef Raskin needs to realize that not everyone wants to drink his mead. :-) > > Because frankly, I think that he deserved to get his ass > > beat for changing somebody's color scheme to red on red and forcing them to > > have to reinstall it. If that's his best argument for why we don't need > > color in the GUI, then I rest my case. > >No, that was also a reductio ad absurdum argument. No, that was his statement of something that he actually did to someone's computer to bolster his argument. And if his argument rests on the most absurd case he can find, it's probably without much merit. >Even if you agree with none of his other premises, you have >to agree that an interface that permits converting the >product from its intended use to a doorstop is a poorly >designed interface. That's like saying that a knife is a poorly designed utensil because you can cut yourself with it. Every interface known to man has the ability to be used for something unanticipated and potentially stupid. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater ain't the answer. >It's not about monochrome. Just because he designed the >most critically acclaimed user interface of all time on >a machine incapable of displaying color, doesn't mean >that he would have limited himself to monochrome, had the >choice been available. Again, I point out that no one is currently shipping "the most critically acclaimed user interface of all time" any more, so what does that say about it's modern-day value? >In any case, developing a new window manager would not serve >to solve the problem he's pointing at, any more than denying >the existance of the problem solves it. I'm not denying that improvements can be made. I'm denying that Jef Raskin's assertion that we're all ass-backwards for using our current interfaces and that his proposals are all dead-on correct. Admittedly he raises some good points, but they're largely his opinion, and I respect his opinion for what it is. << Chip Morton >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message