From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 23 03:17:47 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCAA1065698 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:17:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from ant.hiwaay.net (ant.hiwaay.net [216.180.54.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35228FC1C for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.0.9] (dynamic-24-42-224-110.knology.net [24.42.224.110] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by ant.hiwaay.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o7N3HiAb878178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:17:45 -0500 (CDT) References: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> In-Reply-To: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: David Kelly Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:17:46 -0500 To: "Garry" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is this bunk. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: questions@freebsd.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:17:47 -0000 On Aug 22, 2010, at 7:25 PM, Garry wrote: > This is a conversation held on a UK group page, can you confirm or = deny this > as twaddle. >=20 > Mac OS X is basically BSD that's been appleised (serious vendor = lock-in), > they do give a little back to BSDs, but have made sure that BSDs can't = get > much off of them, but they can get a lot out of BSD. Apple hired a lot of key people from the FreeBSD project. I don't know = just what comes back to FreeBSD out of Apple but suspect the reason you = and myself don't know is that Apple doesn't care to toot their own horn. = Apple made a significant contribution a while back testing and improving = NFS. As for how much of MacOS X is BSD, pretty much all of the command line = stuff. Apple has gone to great lengths to XML-ize most everything so = while MacOS is BSD, its probably the most distant BSD cousin. > Also, Windows uses (or used to use) a BSD stack for networking for > instance. NT 3.51 used to flash a Berkeley Software Distribution copyright message = on the text console during boot because some code was used. Doubt MS = could leave well enough alone to simply lift the entire stack. The = VMS-inspired NT kernel was probably not organized in such a way as to = optimally use an unmodified BSD network protocol stack. > So, in supporting/using BDS i would enevatibaly end up writing code = for it, > or filing bugs or whatever. > (I have assisted with a few Linux drivers and written kernel patches, = as > well as working on things like DirectX 3D 9 for Wine and work on KDE = etc...) >=20 > Having seen how BDS license software has been used, to create highly = tied > in, almost crippled proprietary software, I do not feel that I can = support > software developed under such licenses. So why are you here? Trolling? It bugs the heck out of some people when others manage to build on their = work to make something better, and then not give it away to everyone = else. Others realize that if what we do is truly useful then others will = want to use it to build bigger and better things. That it doesn't matter = if we sell our work or give it away, what others do with it is no skin = off our noses. Our original work is still exactly as accessible as it = was before others made something more of their own version of it. > Web-Kit has actually worked quite well as an open system, even though = Apple > done a hostile take over of the project from KHTML in KDE. > So, the GPL has worked to produce an open product in Web-kit but the = BSD > license has lead to vendor lock-in on the part of Microsoft and most > significantly Apple. Thats one of the big problems of the GPL-mindset. Seems they spend a = whole lot more time cloning the work of others than in actually creating = anything new. > This does not mean to say that I have a problem with the quality of = the code > in BSD, I just feel that the license is counter productive. There is nothing in the BSD license permitting a "hostile takeover." = Some would claim FreeBSD has executed a "hostile takeover" of what it is = to be BSD. The pre-FreeBSD code is out there, you are welcome to it. = Some would say OpenBSD attempted a hostile takeover of BSD. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.