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Date:      Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:22:46 -0600 (CST)
From:      Jay Nelson <noslenj@swbell.net>
To:        cjclark@home.com
Cc:        Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>, Mark Ovens <mark@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Guns and freedom [Was: Re: On "intelligent people" and "dangers to BSD"]
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.05.10003281802460.541-100000@acp.swbell.net>
In-Reply-To: <20000327223602.B11538@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>

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On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Crist J. Clark wrote:

[snip]
>
>But rarely, see we all agree. And wouldn't it be nice if in most of
>those cases, neither one of the people in the situation had a gun?

The preferred weapon on the street is a knife and knives are
consistently more lethal than firearms. I stand a better chance of
surviving a gunshot than a knife wound. You should worry more about the
knives than guns.

[snip]

>> the dangers to the owner. In the real world -- there is no such thing
>> as an "accidental discharge." There is, of course, stupidity, which

>Huh?

When you handle a weapon, there is no excuse for _any_ unplanned
event. Period, end of discussion. If you spent any time at all around
people who use firearms, you would realize that there is _zero_
tolerance for "unfortunate events." The weapon is under control at all
times, under any circumstance. Ask some of your police friends about
that.

[snip]

>Shooting yourself or someone else unintentionally is almost always
>stupid, but it's still an accident. I don't understand how you are
>saying this is more complicated. It's simple. People, everyone, you,
>me, and everyone reading this, make mistakes. If you want to classify
>them all as stupid, OK, but we all do it. And when one makes a mistake
>with a deadly weapon, which is going to happen at a certain rate
>because people do screw up, the stakes are just that much
>higher. Where's the complexity?

With that attitude, you wouldn't last 30 seconds in the shooting
crowd. That attitude is not tolerated.

>> Most of the reasoned discussion in this diversion of the thread seems
>> to come from people who clearly have never faced a violent
>> confrontation and are basing their logic on the movies. That will
>> convince people who also learn from movies. It will never sway those
>> who learned up close and personal -- so I think we are wasting a lot of
>> band width and should get back to hand-wringing over the merger.
>
>Strange. I think it's just the other way around. The people who watch
>the movies and the sensationalized news coverage to me are the ones
>who think they need to pack heat in case some random stranger comes
>for them, and the chances of that are remote. The few times I have
>found myself in violent situations, I am sure glad no one pulled a
>gun. Fight or flight works for me, but I can't outrun a bullet.

The few times I have been in that situation, here in the States, it
was a knife they pulled. I would have preferred they pulled a gun; they
would have been easier to disarm with less risk. But, they don't show
that in the movies, either.

-- Jay



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