From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 21:43:54 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FEB16A468 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDC613C484 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (obsolete.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l5GLU7p8087575; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l5GLU6kf039749; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.6/Submit) id l5GLU6PQ039746; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20070616213006.GA39721@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <200706161733.RAA14937@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20070616191714.GA38504@freebie.xs4all.nl> <46745340.6090702@u.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46745340.6090702@u.washington.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dieter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fwd: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:54 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 02:16:48PM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote.. > Wilko Bulte wrote: > >On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 10:33:00AM +0100, Dieter wrote.. > > > >>So who, exactly, is the best person to write to requesting > >>docs for AMD/ATI graphics/video chips? > >> > >>We need to politely inform them that > >> > >> There are a lot of operating systems out there, > >> and they all need high quality, fully functional drivers. > >> FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Plan-9, Open-Solaris, ... > >> > >> We might want to add a ATI graphics/video card to a computer > >> with a different CPU architecture (Alpha, Sparc, PPC, ...) > >> > >> Binary drivers are useless, because: > >> Too many OSes. > >> Too many CPU archs. > >> Can't fix bugs. > >> Can't fix security holes. > >> Therefore we need documentation on how to program the chips. > >> > >> 2D is not enough. We need video decoding and 3D. > >> > >> If we can't have high quality, fully functional source code drivers > >> for the OS and CPU arch of our choice, then there is no reason to > >> buy the product. > >> > >>Have I left out anything? > >> > > > >Well.. yes. "How much revenue ($$) AMD will loose when these open > >source projects do not get the chip docs". > > > >Ultimately the $$ question is what exec level management will ask. > > > > > Countering the above statements (the following are important I would not call that countering, I think we agree? > questions to answer, and should be done by their business types with > more hard data): > How much money will AMD lose on competitive edge versus market > segment share for the particular open source customer base? And is that enough to be noticable in the grander (MS-Windows) scheme of things> > How much of the ATI drivers will they have to modify in order to > ensure that they remain IP protected and the extremely proprietary > sections don't get put out in the open by accident? The outcome might even be that this is not worthwhile for them.. (blackest possible outcome, I agree). > -Garrett -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org