From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Fri Sep 25 18:12:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB213FF571 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 18:12:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound5a.ore.mailhop.org (outbound5a.ore.mailhop.org [44.233.67.66]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Byg4J4CxSz4Lbk for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 18:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1601057545; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=fQMHsG9dbjTcD6Ao2aS3Gtufnzb28yGdrKwA8M/Keq+S8I6i+2+n24BSFgT9n+GxOdGA0xTBoWAPX RBBjcPR5ZTAsd8jd7bMA0RQt9ZWSr/Rmn1zC3I33wgPMdzif0LCrcHQ+iGJczy2bBAlKNyI7lEv4Ms rBX5VHEbhfsL23RNL8JqN2j5ydeVSRZs5lpgiJZHC1Zrl68Rg3pehjhvqp5IaFOG79RjN6ZAmTTJX6 P0fTssxFoMW+GwOf/V+eM3a+953ltdQpLcJwzmHvH1guudS5xSVcb028xs85G9jZQh592Pkp8azsMA tFLYarf9crgzsVLTaU24s3/FJaZN25Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=0O3/+KPh49dGnHLutC3pxPvBpY6WTG6FVVKASo7LslY=; b=bRY4sCuUY8h3Bqw476MGtvVihydkHaDZKbWzo3Ugf+6iA17Z7+poQtJBQQD/OijczDASsdDzxv6jA hznu9Je4dZ+rFUQbtjeeZUz7lxbqkxqAKMWb4EFh91ib21pT0lOZ0h8SGfMr4dUcYGOnCfbFmCO1TM BMbOZLXWgg0rIFdOSTf/88URkcjSve/60JJYzUeifjuP2ZXQOlN+5BqnOcaoPW2kBFgmsRwGmD6GXZ FczMXAxJzUA4Qq1PEZbyNwH8kF9op+fC1U5xULu+h8bvMv1eCYNtDZjICwVquuJlFk+SVuLOGJ4DlU mU/c86pJb02METy1ktWjeNwDDETRpsQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=0O3/+KPh49dGnHLutC3pxPvBpY6WTG6FVVKASo7LslY=; b=CCPmCW6FtBGsxSYj2AQJeDi7bpsEY2W/3dKHYlAdvifluAkosQ6TddTDR+NHXIttq/A21VakEUGvv 50OIsnaXr3oF1gsh80XVVnrbqYLFODHwMfcN5jilnbl05AlovQIxXhmTgrDEniOrK8nTr3VopdvLDT 50DqmGE9esYBf88MPwYigjqhMLHJ1Q2iAHwDEj50dYqdMoN5/z5t1RM6iO2w05LBDjnAWEtjAKlTeO vvWts607rc9aoxjyra6oZgxHWDqMbVUE+gjv8tk1sFwAG/NURwbeQ9XVdSXr5cr4boWXRKC7+JZ2+f 4UDrKU8ei8XbkARHIOVzPBDcQIvXlyg== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: a8ea602b-ff5a-11ea-8b38-614106969e8d X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (c-67-177-211-60.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a8ea602b-ff5a-11ea-8b38-614106969e8d; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 18:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 08PICNYj038899; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:12:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365643 - head/bin/cp From: Ian Lepore To: rgrimes@freebsd.org Cc: src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:12:23 -0600 In-Reply-To: <202009251755.08PHtZOs051623@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202009251755.08PHtZOs051623@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Byg4J4CxSz4Lbk X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:44.224.0.0/11, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 18:12:33 -0000 On Fri, 2020-09-25 at 10:55 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > I was under the impression from previous reading and kib's response > > that this is a complete non-issue, there's no way you can go > > multi-user without a mounted /dev and we go to somewhat great > > lengths to make sure we're good. > > Though kib can assert that, it does not change the fact that I > frequently find /dev/null FILES on unmounted root file systems. > > But lets not mix the 2 separate things of boot time /dev dependency > and build time /dev dependency. If you look in sys/kern/vfs_mountroot.c you can see that the code to mount /dev is invoked unconditionally as the first step of mounting root, and that all the calls it makes to get devfs mounted have their results checked with KASSERTs. That's pretty strong evidence that devfs is mounted before rc scripts run. That creates a situation where you are making an extraordinary claim, so you need to provide extraordinary evidence to support it. A sequence of actions that allows others to recreate the situation would do the trick. (A question that occurs to me: could it be that the files you've seen got created at shutdown after devfs was unmounted, rather than at startup? I don't know enough about the shutdown sequence to know whether that's possible.) -- Ian