From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 13 20:02:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDFB23AB423 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 20:02:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from oceanview.tundraware.com (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailman.tundraware.com", Issuer "mailman.tundraware.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BSHXq4SFxz3W7t for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 20:02:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ozzie.tundraware.com [75.145.138.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by oceanview.tundraware.com (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 07DK2C0m076323 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 15:02:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Subject: Re: OT: Dealing with a hosting company with it's head up it's rear end To: FreeBSD Mailing List References: <20200813201014.a2e212f17226084d6a0bfb94@sohara.org> From: Tim Daneliuk Autocrypt: addr=tundra@tundraware.com; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200813201014.a2e212f17226084d6a0bfb94@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]); Thu, 13 Aug 2020 15:02:12 -0500 (CDT) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-TundraWare-MailScanner-ID: 07DK2C0m076323 X-TundraWare-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-TundraWare-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-2.143, required 1, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, AWL 0.76, BAYES_00 -1.90, NICE_REPLY_A -0.00) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-From: tundra@tundraware.com X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BSHXq4SFxz3W7t X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tundra@tundraware.com designates 45.55.60.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tundra@tundraware.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tundraware.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.883]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.75)[-0.755]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.03)[-0.026]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:45.55.32.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 20:02:20 -0000 On 8/13/20 2:10 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 14:56:43 -0400 > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >> The hosting company for one of our clients sent the following reply to >> us/them when we asked them to setup end user accounts on a dedicated >> Windows Server, FreeBSD box and CentOS box (all VM's on the same physical >> machine with no other VM's on the physical machine) and being told we >> needed scriptable access (not web based non-scriptable) to the windows >> desktop and shell accounts (including the ability to sudo) and they agreed >> to provide it: I cannot speak to hosting companies but this is very common in large corporate settings - i.e., I have seen this across many enterprises, especially as regards to sudo or other privilege escalation. To a large extent the decision to limit forms of access (and thereby break most forms of automation tooling) is because of two factors: 1) An increased presence of government regulatory involvement 2) An increased fear of losing in a lawsuit or other legal action I consulted for over 2 years at a large investment bank. During that time, they did not produce a single new financial product for their customers. 100% of their discretionary spending was directed at keeping bureaucrats happy - in this case, GDPR. This sort of things makes even aggressive organizations super conservative about ANY risk. What's really bizarre is that companies that deeply restrict login access, forbid any kind of root promotion other than "firecall" type access, and so forth, seem to have no problem installing BigCo's new monitoring or configuration enforcement agents on these same systems. They trust a vendor's agent more than they do their own ability to produce a good security practice. I once had an extended debates with a so-called security "specialist" who said we couldn't use sudo because it wasn't non-repudiable. I pointed them at the deep event and command logging possible if you setup sudo appropriately. This specialist didn't understand it, held their ground, and all but a few trivial sudo operations were forbidden. Try doing LVM disk management that way .... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/