From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 19 23:02:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11032 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11026 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27833; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362C2758.FE167AE8@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:02:00 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Graeme Tait CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: upgrading notes References: <19981019180600.39400@welearn.com.au> <362B79C3.EAA3607E@gorean.org> <362BBD20.4B26@echidna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Graeme Tait wrote: [some snipping] > Studded wrote: > > > > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > Overall I think this is right on, just a few comments. > > > > > My suggestions for newbies are: > > > > > > - Don't try to be first kid on the block with a new version. > > > Let the expert and the gullible fall into any holes first. > > > > I would extend this to say, "Never install a FreeBSD -RELEASE." I don't > > remember the last time a -Release didn't create a bunch of errors due to > > last minute cramming in of things. Watch the -Stable mailing list (for > > 2.2.x) and wait for things to calm down a bit after the -Release and > > then install the latest -Stable. > > Well, this business of FreeBSD versions certainly is confusing for this newbie. It's confusing to a lot of people, don't feel bad. :) Think of the 2.2 branch as a string. There are always people tying things on at one end of the string, changing some of the strands, etc. The "new" end of the string is what we call 2.2-Stable. If you use cvsup to download -Stable (which cvs thinks of as the "RELENG_2_2" branch) you get the latest bits at the end of the string. Usually this is safe because the nature of the -Stable branch is that *usually* only safe things are added to it. There is a similar string for -Current whose ends are always frayed and patched... don't go there. :) What happens during a -RELEASE is like someone coming along with a sharpie and putting a dot on the string at a certain point. That point in time on the RELENG_2_2 branch then becomes what we know as 2.2.x-RELEASE, but the string keeps moving on. So, one moment before the -Release you have 2.2.6-Stable, then a tag is applied to cvs which makes it 2.2.7-RELEASE, then a moment after that (figuratively) it turns into 2.2.7-Stable, and people start fixing things up again. The problem (in my mind) occurs in the weeks right before a -Release when people start stuffing things in at the last minute so they make it into the release. These changes are often not properly tested, and/or not properly tested together, so the code base that becomes the release ends up with breakage. > My > understanding is that what gets issued with Greg Lehey's book is -RELEASE (mine > being 2.2.6R). > > So are you saying, don't use the CD-ROMs you get with the book??? No, YOU are saying that. :) The CD's have a very valuable place, and I use them myself, especially when installing a new system. However my comments were aimed specifically at sue's text regarding not upgrading to a new -release right away. If you're going to do an upgrade from the net anyway, in my experience the two weeks before through the two weeks after a release are the worst times to upgrade. You're much better off subscribing to freebsd-stable and waiting till the shouting dies down after a release. > You are certainly right about errors in -RELEASE in my case. I spent ages trying to > get an install off a Sony CD-ROM drive. I lost a customer due to the 2.2.6 release, so I can sympathize with you fully. :) > It seems to me that from a configuration control point of view, any final changes > to a version to become a release should be necessary bug fixes ONLY, and that > ideally the version concerned should be not be labelled a "release" until it had > survived a decent period of real-world use with ZERO changes. After all, it's going > to be out there for some reasonable time period cast in poycarbonate. Those who > want the latest and greatest can always download it in advance of the CD-ROMs being > issued. I couldn't agree more. I'm fighting hard to keep 2.2.8-Release as effectively exactly what is now 2.2.7-Stable with only the most crucial fixes added. It would be nice to have one flawless release on the 2.2 branch, especially since 2.2.8 is supposed to be the last. I keep hoping that the lessons of the past will be learned from instead of repeated, but the extent to which I'm willing to continue to beat my head against that wall is reducing over time. I hope that this makes things more clear, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message