Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:02:00 -0700 From: Studded <Studded@gorean.org> To: Graeme Tait <graeme@echidna.com> Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: upgrading notes Message-ID: <362C2758.FE167AE8@gorean.org> References: <19981019180600.39400@welearn.com.au> <362B79C3.EAA3607E@gorean.org> <362BBD20.4B26@echidna.com>
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Graeme Tait wrote:
[some snipping]
> Studded wrote:
> >
> > Sue Blake wrote:
> >
> > Overall I think this is right on, just a few comments.
> >
> > > My suggestions for newbies are:
> > >
> > > - Don't try to be first kid on the block with a new version.
> > > Let the expert and the gullible fall into any holes first.
> >
> > I would extend this to say, "Never install a FreeBSD -RELEASE." I don't
> > remember the last time a -Release didn't create a bunch of errors due to
> > last minute cramming in of things. Watch the -Stable mailing list (for
> > 2.2.x) and wait for things to calm down a bit after the -Release and
> > then install the latest -Stable.
>
> Well, this business of FreeBSD versions certainly is confusing for this newbie.
It's confusing to a lot of people, don't feel bad. :) Think of the 2.2
branch as a string. There are always people tying things on at one end
of the string, changing some of the strands, etc. The "new" end of the
string is what we call 2.2-Stable. If you use cvsup to download -Stable
(which cvs thinks of as the "RELENG_2_2" branch) you get the latest bits
at the end of the string. Usually this is safe because the nature of the
-Stable branch is that *usually* only safe things are added to it. There
is a similar string for -Current whose ends are always frayed and
patched... don't go there. :)
What happens during a -RELEASE is like someone coming along with a
sharpie and putting a dot on the string at a certain point. That point
in time on the RELENG_2_2 branch then becomes what we know as
2.2.x-RELEASE, but the string keeps moving on. So, one moment before the
-Release you have 2.2.6-Stable, then a tag is applied to cvs which makes
it 2.2.7-RELEASE, then a moment after that (figuratively) it turns into
2.2.7-Stable, and people start fixing things up again. The problem (in
my mind) occurs in the weeks right before a -Release when people start
stuffing things in at the last minute so they make it into the release.
These changes are often not properly tested, and/or not properly tested
together, so the code base that becomes the release ends up with
breakage.
> My
> understanding is that what gets issued with Greg Lehey's book is -RELEASE (mine
> being 2.2.6R).
>
> So are you saying, don't use the CD-ROMs you get with the book???
No, YOU are saying that. :) The CD's have a very valuable place, and I
use them myself, especially when installing a new system. However my
comments were aimed specifically at sue's text regarding not upgrading
to a new -release right away. If you're going to do an upgrade from the
net anyway, in my experience the two weeks before through the two weeks
after a release are the worst times to upgrade. You're much better off
subscribing to freebsd-stable and waiting till the shouting dies down
after a release.
> You are certainly right about errors in -RELEASE in my case. I spent ages trying to
> get an install off a Sony CD-ROM drive.
I lost a customer due to the 2.2.6 release, so I can sympathize with
you fully. :)
> It seems to me that from a configuration control point of view, any final changes
> to a version to become a release should be necessary bug fixes ONLY, and that
> ideally the version concerned should be not be labelled a "release" until it had
> survived a decent period of real-world use with ZERO changes. After all, it's going
> to be out there for some reasonable time period cast in poycarbonate. Those who
> want the latest and greatest can always download it in advance of the CD-ROMs being
> issued.
I couldn't agree more. I'm fighting hard to keep 2.2.8-Release as
effectively exactly what is now 2.2.7-Stable with only the most crucial
fixes added. It would be nice to have one flawless release on the 2.2
branch, especially since 2.2.8 is supposed to be the last. I keep hoping
that the lessons of the past will be learned from instead of repeated,
but the extent to which I'm willing to continue to beat my head against
that wall is reducing over time.
I hope that this makes things more clear,
Doug
--
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