From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Tue Feb 9 15:12:48 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B0EAA3E87 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jim@ohlste.in) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B807210 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jim@ohlste.in) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id s68so71071592qkh.3 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 07:12:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ohlste-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y/mS/+6UJq7V9TIg+gb/9z8khT5ig1ob7XjbRpG+h58=; b=K9RCdm5UfnQurQhavNIrYo3gmZXZSidR4yyshtQ7bWu8wi6I8wMhG/H5uvnPtO9rsG tgtVX6fYxaemwqIUfSdwsfzYsC+m483NYjSpdWDxG0S2L3JOtqKykvCYyvImDatRoaSm BM4XpaRYJF1f3SZR4EhGPNO7hicHFWRsuTIlHzfMzR8kv+luqdw7OH/Kp18TmMLUlAdP 6hqG6DooUPxdUm8OWpkB6PUYxjxrQ8NX7uxuffUnmDx7leV6r81I9C92gfOKlxVu5puv rMOgSeyzgFbbj5QEVB/tD1gjR8mtKZ44OTXi0JPKm0AYA3FsB+FP+nvNGkBanVbVJE7C MldA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y/mS/+6UJq7V9TIg+gb/9z8khT5ig1ob7XjbRpG+h58=; b=PKLcmxtyNpNLLKJKirZ0DwJ691YJNosagMXf6wHOOmjX19Iipll91Mhc6BCi/B019f xKZewMGgAP+VhB1Eyqk+7eTzyM6Ks++oDu4NXhmAX3bLewD8poYSSm1UwfonXjXSZLk3 53mZSuBZVKAH2FAWbQxA4ISBWTc0AehkpKj1yC0DkWkGKazSGTTAQmZmCxPdhZIeQv/K j1sgKo+R2+v+Tntwoh30+l80ofs+J/j39iRkWIxvcUMk/Jav2yeJI/H14zgkjpYBXovg /i6N2GloojFVJu3rEEI9V6Jy5zCsZPBNYSUbuPObKID7MjWWQG8adjnTnEdEIkJnsUb9 YDjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOT+N0RToqJB07kLjelcX4ot9wjJRV3UMaOAOeNkMxyamDWtMECsxHFF31P4JmJX1w== X-Received: by 10.55.71.146 with SMTP id u140mr40856658qka.14.1455030766761; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 07:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.18] (pool-96-249-243-37.nrflva.fios.verizon.net. [96.249.243.37]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s130sm15858493qhb.6.2016.02.09.07.12.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 09 Feb 2016 07:12:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Removing documentation To: John Marino , Hrant Dadivanyan References: <56B9D609.6030407@marino.st> <56B9EDC7.1010403@ohlste.in> <56B9F2D6.1090107@marino.st> From: Jim Ohlstein Cc: FreeBSD Ports ML Message-ID: <56BA01ED.7000504@ohlste.in> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:12:45 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56B9F2D6.1090107@marino.st> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:12:48 -0000 On 2/9/16 9:08 AM, John Marino wrote: > On 2/9/2016 2:46 PM, Jim Ohlstein wrote: >> After all of this "discussion" I decided to give synth a try. I have no >> pony in this race as I use neither portmaster nor portupgrade. Both may >> still be in my repo, but they are not installed. > > Thanks for trying it! > >> >> The build time of "like 20-30 minutes, at most" is ummm... let' just >> call it optimistic. I only needed five new dependencies. Poudriere was >> unable to take advantage of more than two parallel builders except for a >> rather short overlap where it used three, if I recall correctly. The >> vast majority of the time it used only one builder. Build and package >> time for gcc6-aux was 34:52 on an Intel E5-2650 v3. Build and package >> time for binutils, required for gcc6-aux, took 4:44. That's pretty close > > hmmm, my core i5 builds it in 10-12 minutes and I've had it ~4 years? > I'm not sure why such a big descreptancy, but newer machines with 4-8Gb > or more ram should have no issues with time. Interesting. I just tested again and got 31:47. To be fair, I only allow that VM four cores. Perhaps it might do better with more? > >> to 40 minutes for just two dependencies, one of which is a dependency of >> the other. Build and package time for synth was 1:09. >> >> I installed synth and had a look at the man page. Nice job on the >> documentation though I might suggest more real world examples, in an >> "Examples" section at the end, would be helpful to people like me who >> want to understand how to get started. Sort of like a "quick start >> guide" that comes with a new electronic component. Get it going and then >> read the details on what's really important for the specific use case. >> That shouldn't be construed as a knock on the documentation, which >> really is very good. > > Do you think the illustrated README on the github page is helpful? > > https://github.com/jrmarino/synth > Yes, I do indeed. Thanks. > >> This was last night and I haven't tried building with it yet. I need to >> re-read the documentation. I do however have concerns, the biggest of >> which is, yes, the dependencies. I use poudriere because I like to build >> packages myself for my installations and with my options, so using the >> FreeBSD repo version of synth will be a non-starter. That means that >> I'll need to rebuild gcc6-aux every time I need to rebuild synth, >> assuming gcc6-aux has been updated. It's a fair guess that gcc6-aux is >> regularly updated (the current version is dated 20160124). It's also a > > After gcc6 hits release (6.1), it will probably only be released with > every point release (6.2, 6.3), which are separated by months. > >> fair guess that synth will go through a few iterations in the short term >> given its youth. Looking at my recent build logs, the longest builds I > > It's feature complete and v1.00 is coming out in a few days (same as > 0.99_6 with a version bump). v1.1 will come soon after when I improve > on the build-repository command to not scan the entire tree. It's > already been through the iterations, so I don't there will be that many > more. In any case, it's a small problem (and when gcc6-aux is released, > it won't build the bundled libraries anymore but use other ports so it > will be much, much faster to compile. > > >> run are far shorter than 35 minutes. This will slow things down and I'm >> not certain I'm going to be willing to keep a package in my repo that >> requires that amount of build time just as a dependency I otherwise >> would never build. To be honest, synth, which I will try, will have to >> be _far_ superior to poudriere in order to replace it as my tool of >> choice. Of course that's my use case and mine only. > > To be fair, poudriere users aren't the target audience. Yes, it's > significantly faster than poudriere and maybe people like the interface > better, but if they are already set up on poudriere and happy with it, > that's a fine choice too. > > It's more for people that aren't using poudriere, really should be, but > are intimidated by it. > -- Jim Ohlstein "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain